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The Pentagon's $399 Billion Plane to Nowhere

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: The Pentagon's $399 Billion Plane to Nowhere

#21

Post by themartorana »

gavanwoolery wrote: post #4
danso wrote: post #2

> "An upfront question with any program now is: How many congressional districts is it in?" said Thomas Christie, a former senior Pentagon acquisitions official. The military-industrial complex runs deep...and it goes to show how little we can rely on politicians to confront it. If you were a Representative from the few regions that still has an industrial base, it would be easy to justify just another "Yes" vote, fo…

The problem with this type of spending, whether or not it does create jobs, is that it is inherently wasteful. If it were a good plane, and not a political show pony, I'd let it off the hook. But billions are being poured into this fancy paperweight, when that money could more readily benefit programs like NASA (I am a fan of private space enterprise, but if we are going to go nuts with the political budget, might as…

It's true, but the same people voting yes "because jobs" vote no on infrastructure repair and improvement projects - desperately needed work that would also create jobs and have a huge, noticeable positive impact on the general citizenry.

Govn't spending to create jobs is always welfare, no matter where we put the money. Why not put it somewhere that will create the same number of jobs, and have something other than a flaming war plane to show for it?

Re: The Pentagon's $399 Billion Plane to Nowhere

#22

Post by Tloewald »

marktangotango wrote: post #5

Seems like I remember (back in 2005-6) taht the JSF/F-35 was well within budget and on time BEFORE the F-22 was cancelled because of the explosion in costs that now confronts the F-35. Can anyone corroborate that or am I totally off? It really seems that once the F-22 was cancelled the F-35 became the new 'cash cow' so to speak.

The irony of the F22 being cancelled in favor of the F35 is pretty rich.

Re: The Pentagon's $399 Billion Plane to Nowhere

#23

Post by 01Michael10 »

War, the military industrial complex, and homeland security are our biggest money black holes our tax dollars go into and not things like food stamps. People need to start to get clued in...

I would like to make sure Lockheed Martin gets mentioned as the incompetent manufacturer in this debacle.

Re: The Pentagon's $399 Billion Plane to Nowhere

#24

Post by jaxytee »

spodek wrote: post #7

It would appear this nation's military is a fat, bloated welfare recipient, feeling entitled and too powerful for anyone to do anything about it, impoverishing the nation. We all know it has many brilliant and capable individuals and teams in it who can do great work, but the system is anything but. The money ultimately goes to people, meaning we are paying people to do unproductive work, though I'm sure plenty of it…

Problem is, any politician who mentions a decrease in military spending is demonized by the right and "left".

Re: The Pentagon's $399 Billion Plane to Nowhere

#25

Post by karmajunkie »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #16
lostgame wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Veterans, yes. But how about all the people who lost their jobs in the US over the last 20 years because of the obvious incompetence of the government to budget in any way that makes sense. Priorities. If you have a ton of starving and jobless people in your country, you do not spend a quarter of a TRILLION dollars on killing more people. I'm sorry, you just don't.

Getting people to work means more people paid, more jobs. How does a large govt project reduce available jobs? Not following.

It doesn't. The point is not that it reduces available jobs, but that nearly half a trillion dollars could have been spent more directly on any number of options which A) don't involve blowing up people in foreign countries; and B) produce a substantially better quality of life in this country. Basic income, healthcare, even jobs just standing around that paid a living wage.

It boggles the mind.

Re: The Pentagon's $399 Billion Plane to Nowhere

#27

Post by antidaily »

lostgame wrote: post #13
rickdale wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the money we spend on the fighting the wars, yet we can't over spend on treating the veterans. It's really pathetic.

Veterans, yes. But how about all the people who lost their jobs in the US over the last 20 years because of the obvious incompetence of the government to budget in any way that makes sense. Priorities. If you have a ton of starving and jobless people in your country, you do not spend a quarter of a TRILLION dollars on killing more people. I'm sorry, you just don't.

If only it was a quarter trillion.

Re: The Pentagon's $399 Billion Plane to Nowhere

#28

Post by Thriptic »

themartorana wrote: post #21
gavanwoolery wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this type of spending, whether or not it does create jobs, is that it is inherently wasteful. If it were a good plane, and not a political show pony, I'd let it off the hook. But billions are being poured into this fancy paperweight, when that money could more readily benefit programs like NASA (I am a fan of private space enterprise, but if we are going to go nuts with the political budget, might as…

It's true, but the same people voting yes "because jobs" vote no on infrastructure repair and improvement projects - desperately needed work that would also create jobs and have a huge, noticeable positive impact on the general citizenry. Govn't spending to create jobs is always welfare, no matter where we put the money. Why not put it somewhere that will create the same number of jobs, and have something other than…

New defense projects are sexy; bringing this type of work to a district makes politicians seem "innovative", and it's the type of thing that plays well in a campaign speech. Maintaining and expanding infrastructure isn't sexy. It won't keep politicians elected.

Re: The Pentagon's $399 Billion Plane to Nowhere

#29

Post by wuliwong »

01Michael10 wrote: post #23

War, the military industrial complex, and homeland security are our biggest money black holes our tax dollars go into and not things like food stamps. People need to start to get clued in... I would like to make sure Lockheed Martin gets mentioned as the incompetent manufacturer in this debacle.

I believe you are wrong about that. While defense spending is big, it's not the highest. Health and Human Services and Social Security are both significantly higher portions of the budget. Unless there's a bunch of "off the books" spending?

You can easily see here in this extremely user-friendly document http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2... :-p

Re: The Pentagon's $399 Billion Plane to Nowhere

#30

Post by higherpurpose »

antidaily wrote: post #27
lostgame wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Veterans, yes. But how about all the people who lost their jobs in the US over the last 20 years because of the obvious incompetence of the government to budget in any way that makes sense. Priorities. If you have a ton of starving and jobless people in your country, you do not spend a quarter of a TRILLION dollars on killing more people. I'm sorry, you just don't.

If only it was a quarter trillion.

More like a quarter trillion per year.
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