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Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

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Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#21

Post by Stronico »

ryanmim wrote: post #12

I drink way too much. I've accepted this. What stops me from drinking way too much? Not much, because I'm able to rationalize my drinking with the many beneficial effects touted. There's a lot of information about how drinking a bit is helpful for heart disease and how it basically reduces mortality across the board. More information is needed about how drinking is HARMFUL beyond cirrhosis and the short term effects…

One thing to consider is that alcohol use is progressive - and while you drink a significant amount now - what if you doubled it in five years (as often happens) - would you still have it under control and not negatively affecting others? Addiction = (exposure * time) * genetics.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#22

Post by dragonwriter »

zo1 wrote: post #20
Zigurd wrote: post #3

You have to wonder what the economic impact would be if government policy were driven by a top ten list of quality-of-life issues. Would there be PSAs on TV suggesting a bong hit instead of a drink? Would soda pop be locked up behind the counter? "Got more milk than you can digest?" How many points of GDP would it be worth to do the necessary social engineering? The other side of the coin is: What is the total cost o…

" You have to wonder what the economic impact would be if government policy were driven by a top ten list of quality-of-life issues. " Not all issues boil down to "economic impact". Nor is it the only determining factor when deciding on such matters. You have to take into account peoples willingness, or lack thereof to do these things you speak of. Otherwise, you'll have to concede that all you're trying to do is max…

> Not all issues boil down to "economic impact".

Arguably, they really do, but you have to remember that economics is about the distribution of scarce things (both material goods and services) connected to experienced utility (money is just a -- rather poor in many respects, but also very convenient -- proxy for utility.)

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#23

Post by Zigurd »

zo1 wrote: post #20
Zigurd wrote: post #3

You have to wonder what the economic impact would be if government policy were driven by a top ten list of quality-of-life issues. Would there be PSAs on TV suggesting a bong hit instead of a drink? Would soda pop be locked up behind the counter? "Got more milk than you can digest?" How many points of GDP would it be worth to do the necessary social engineering? The other side of the coin is: What is the total cost o…

" You have to wonder what the economic impact would be if government policy were driven by a top ten list of quality-of-life issues. " Not all issues boil down to "economic impact". Nor is it the only determining factor when deciding on such matters. You have to take into account peoples willingness, or lack thereof to do these things you speak of. Otherwise, you'll have to concede that all you're trying to do is max…

I wholeheartedly agree that there is a lot wrong with GDP. It sure isn't directly equivalent to quality of life. BUT when the issue is morbidity and mortality among the working-age population, GDP isn't that bad a metric. And it has the advantage of appealing to greed.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#24

Post by slavik81 »

mikegioia wrote: post #15
hga wrote: post #7

I'm not sure this is all that surprising. Turn it around: what do we expect to be the causes for those adults between age 20 and 64 who die? I really should read up on the relevant actuarial facts, but isn't it the case that by and large those from 20 to, say, 50 plus or minus are fairly healthy?

I think what's surprising is that 1/10 is pretty high for something that technically could be prevented entirely. It has nothing to do with other causes of death.

If you somehow eliminated all other causes of death for working age adults, it would be 10/10. Because it's relative to total deaths, other causes of death are important in understanding what that statistic means.

It's also worth noting that a good chunk of all deaths among working age adults are preventable. Miscellaneous accidents, suicide and homicide are the most common causes of death at the younger end of the adult spectrum. Towards the older end, cancer and heart disease skyrocket and dwarf them.

See "10 Leading Causes of Death by Age Group": http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/10lcid_all_deaths_by_a...

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#25

Post by rwmj »

mikegioia wrote: post #15
hga wrote: post #7

I'm not sure this is all that surprising. Turn it around: what do we expect to be the causes for those adults between age 20 and 64 who die? I really should read up on the relevant actuarial facts, but isn't it the case that by and large those from 20 to, say, 50 plus or minus are fairly healthy?

I think what's surprising is that 1/10 is pretty high for something that technically could be prevented entirely. It has nothing to do with other causes of death.

"Technically could be prevented" .. how? Prohibition didn't work out well, and people can make booze with some fruit juice, air and a radiator even in the most extremely regulated environments[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruno

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#26

Post by teddyh »

ryanmim wrote: post #12

I drink way too much. I've accepted this. What stops me from drinking way too much? Not much, because I'm able to rationalize my drinking with the many beneficial effects touted. There's a lot of information about how drinking a bit is helpful for heart disease and how it basically reduces mortality across the board. More information is needed about how drinking is HARMFUL beyond cirrhosis and the short term effects…

You are not the same person while drunk. If you think that the person you are while sober is a better person, you have a perfectly valid reason for not drinking.

I’ll just leave you with this:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/9-youtube-videos-that-prove-anyo...

Not so much to prove that you can do it, but more for the change that anyone can see. You could hardly tell that it’s the same person in the first videos as the last ones.

P.S.

I found the more relevant article I was looking for:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-things-you-dont-realize-about-...

It goes into more detail about what I mentioned above – how you are a different person while drunk, but you might not realize this until you quit.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#27

Post by Zigurd »

rimantas wrote: post #13

Having in mind how many deaths are caused by health issues related to obesity what number should be in headline "Eating behind _ in 10 deaths of working-age adults"?

The US diabetes mortality rate is about 2X that of other advanced economies, so, yeah, eating crappy food is going to be a lot of the rest.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#28

Post by matwood »

Stronico wrote: post #21
ryanmim wrote: post #12

I drink way too much. I've accepted this. What stops me from drinking way too much? Not much, because I'm able to rationalize my drinking with the many beneficial effects touted. There's a lot of information about how drinking a bit is helpful for heart disease and how it basically reduces mortality across the board. More information is needed about how drinking is HARMFUL beyond cirrhosis and the short term effects…

One thing to consider is that alcohol use is progressive - and while you drink a significant amount now - what if you doubled it in five years (as often happens) - would you still have it under control and not negatively affecting others? Addiction = (exposure * time) * genetics.

Interesting. My alcohol use has been becoming less and less as I get older. I love a nice wine or good beer, but my nights of going out partying are way behind me.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#29

Post by pekk »

ryanmim wrote: post #12

I drink way too much. I've accepted this. What stops me from drinking way too much? Not much, because I'm able to rationalize my drinking with the many beneficial effects touted. There's a lot of information about how drinking a bit is helpful for heart disease and how it basically reduces mortality across the board. More information is needed about how drinking is HARMFUL beyond cirrhosis and the short term effects…

IIRC, someone else with more expertise may show up, but the studies showing that drinking is helpful for heart disease say that this is about drinking one. Not "way too much" - mortality increases dramatically if you drink way too much, over what it would be if you didn't drink at all. The advantage of drinking is completely erased by drinking too much.

The message isn't as mixed as you think.

Re: Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults

#30

Post by nine_k »

rwmj wrote: post #25
mikegioia wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what's surprising is that 1/10 is pretty high for something that technically could be prevented entirely. It has nothing to do with other causes of death.

"Technically could be prevented" .. how? Prohibition didn't work out well, and people can make booze with some fruit juice, air and a radiator even in the most extremely regulated environments[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruno

These cause can be prevented technically, but not socially. It is possible, though, in different social conditions, like these of a high-security prison, monastery, or a Mars-bound spaceship with a carefully chosen crew. There the levels of suicide, homicide, alcoholism can be either negligible or strictly zero.

The catch is that these conditions assume severe limitations of personal liberties, voluntary or imposed by force. Obviously this is not a realistic model of a society I (and probably you) would like to live all my life.

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