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Android without the mothership

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Re: Android without the mothership

#21

Post by redacted »

privong wrote: post #2

I have been running this setup (Cyanogenmod + f-droid, no google apps) for the past 9 months and have been quite happy. I use owncloud for keeping my calendar, contacts, and files sync'ed. K9mail + APG for (signed/encrypted) email. As the article notes OsmAnd is workable, but the what is available through f-droid is 2 versions behind (apparently with low chance of future updates due to difficulties building it). Many…

There is an ongoing project on XDA (Android ROM/development forum) call NOGAPPS [1], which aims to replace as much of Google's services as possible. I have no idea how far along it is, but there appear to be active users in any case.

They have a NetworkLocation replacement which uses Apple's location services, and the dev is planning to add Mozilla Location services in the future. It also replaces Google Maps with OSM.

[1] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375

Re: Android without the mothership

#22

Post by zmmmmm »

aikah wrote: post #14
zmmmmm wrote: post #3

I am wondering how long it is before we see an effort to do to Google Play Services what Google did to Java - copy all the APIs and create an independent alternative that lets you build apps that use features from Play Services, without tying your app to Google. Ideally one can then choose what to do from just stubbing them out, filling them with 3rd party alternatives, or providing custom implementations. I would th…

EDIT : wanted to update my message but deleted it!pasting it here : the value of Android,for most people, is in Google services... not in Linux.People dont care what os android is running,the fact that it is Linux is irrelevant for them,(but not for google). > copy all the APIs and create an independent alternative that lets you build apps that use features from Play Services, without tying your app to Google. Ideall…

I'm not sure what I said that incited such passion in your answer. I did not ask anybody to copy it for me personally, I did not even suggest anything about whether such a project is a free or commercial enterprise. I didn't suggest whether I think this is a good thing or a bad thing. You seem to have picked up on some imaginary points you think I was making without any basis in my actual comment.

What I am suggesting is that there are coalition of interests - Android manufacturers that share the situation of being outside of Google's ecosystem. All these manufacturers want apps, and the apps are all on Google Play. They therefore have a very strong interest in having those apps run without modification on their own platforms which is achievable only if someone clones the Google APIs. It seems to me only a matter of time before the incentive to create this gets high enough that someone actually does it.

Re: Android without the mothership

#23

Post by rahimnathwani »

zmmmmm wrote: post #3

I am wondering how long it is before we see an effort to do to Google Play Services what Google did to Java - copy all the APIs and create an independent alternative that lets you build apps that use features from Play Services, without tying your app to Google. Ideally one can then choose what to do from just stubbing them out, filling them with 3rd party alternatives, or providing custom implementations. I would th…

Or each of these companies could do it themselves. If you're not yet dominant in a market, then it makes sense to provide support (on your hardware+ROM) for the dominant player's APIs. Once you achieve dominance (in whichever geography/niche matters to you) you want to lock in app developers.

I don't know how, e.g. Xiaomi, does this. However, it would be a reasonable strategy to first provide API compatibility for all important Play features, so that apps not targeting the platform 'just work'. Once app developers see Xiaomi as the primary platform (or at least one of the 'must support' ones) then you can create your own API definition for new stuff, knowing that developers will do the work to support your platform, but that this code won't necessarily work with your less powerful competitors' products.

Re: Android without the mothership

#24

Post by rahimnathwani »

zmmmmm wrote: post #22
aikah wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT : wanted to update my message but deleted it!pasting it here : the value of Android,for most people, is in Google services... not in Linux.People dont care what os android is running,the fact that it is Linux is irrelevant for them,(but not for google). > copy all the APIs and create an independent alternative that lets you build apps that use features from Play Services, without tying your app to Google. Ideall…

I'm not sure what I said that incited such passion in your answer. I did not ask anybody to copy it for me personally, I did not even suggest anything about whether such a project is a free or commercial enterprise. I didn't suggest whether I think this is a good thing or a bad thing. You seem to have picked up on some imaginary points you think I was making without any basis in my actual comment. What I am suggestin…

It seems to me only a matter of time before the incentive to create this gets high enough that someone actually does it.

Yes, but it might be just another big company which does it, and in an 'all or nothing' fashion. In that case you would have a choice (Google or XBigCorp), but I'm guessing you really want to be able to mix and match, and have different parts of the Play APIs served by different apps/daemons/companies/whatever.

Re: Android without the mothership

#26

Post by wutbrodo »

iamshs wrote: post #11
privong wrote: post #2

I have been running this setup (Cyanogenmod + f-droid, no google apps) for the past 9 months and have been quite happy. I use owncloud for keeping my calendar, contacts, and files sync'ed. K9mail + APG for (signed/encrypted) email. As the article notes OsmAnd is workable, but the what is available through f-droid is 2 versions behind (apparently with low chance of future updates due to difficulties building it). Many…

This is really informative post for separating Android from Google, to the maximum extent for conscientious people. Location, contacts, wifi access points getting shared with Google very much annoys me. But I was even more peeved of Android when there was no way to store contacts locally. No option to store on the phone, but instead you had to save to google account. I am not doing that. So I went the whole hog and i…

> But I was even more peeved of Android when there was no way to store contacts locally. No option to store on the phone, but instead you had to save to Google account.

Are you sure about this? This may be unique to Touchwiz or something, but you can save a contact to either the device or to Google contacts.

Re: Android without the mothership

#27

Post by sirkneeland »

rohith_14_04 wrote: post #25

I guess Nokia X series comes without Google goodies

True, but it does come instead with Microsoft goodies (and HERE maps, which are still owned by the part of Nokia that Microsoft didn't buy). Depending on your personal preferences (re: service quality, privacy etc) Microsoft cloud services may be an improvement over Google, they may be no different, or they may be worse.

Re: Android without the mothership

#28

Post by ithkuil »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #24
zmmmmm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what I said that incited such passion in your answer. I did not ask anybody to copy it for me personally, I did not even suggest anything about whether such a project is a free or commercial enterprise. I didn't suggest whether I think this is a good thing or a bad thing. You seem to have picked up on some imaginary points you think I was making without any basis in my actual comment. What I am suggestin…

It seems to me only a matter of time before the incentive to create this gets high enough that someone actually does it. Yes, but it might be just another big company which does it, and in an 'all or nothing' fashion. In that case you would have a choice (Google or XBigCorp), but I'm guessing you really want to be able to mix and match, and have different parts of the Play APIs served by different apps/daemons/compan…

People have done this stuff for free. GNU/Whatever/Linux itself is a clone of some existing APIs. Wine, reactos, while being far from complete, attacked a far larger API and also a big moving target.

It's doable. By amateurs and professionals with passion and spare time.

Re: Android without the mothership

#29

Post by thaumasiotes »

wutbrodo wrote: post #26
iamshs wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really informative post for separating Android from Google, to the maximum extent for conscientious people. Location, contacts, wifi access points getting shared with Google very much annoys me. But I was even more peeved of Android when there was no way to store contacts locally. No option to store on the phone, but instead you had to save to google account. I am not doing that. So I went the whole hog and i…

> But I was even more peeved of Android when there was no way to store contacts locally. No option to store on the phone, but instead you had to save to Google account. Are you sure about this? This may be unique to Touchwiz or something, but you can save a contact to either the device or to Google contacts.

I had the same problem when I got a nexus 5. No way to store contact information locally without disabling google contacts sync. And I only knew to do that by complaining on HN at the time and getting the suggestion.

Re: Android without the mothership

#30

Post by joenathan »

zurn wrote: post #19
mkozlows wrote: post #6

It seems notable that trying to run a modern computer without Google is about as quixotic as was trying to run a '90s-era computer without Microsoft.

PCs were for boring suit types in the 90s. Windows 3.1, ugh. Lots of people ran Amigas or Macs at home and RISC workstations at university or work. Then Linux happened and you could run something nice even on a PC. It involved tinkering but advancing by leaps and bounds, certainly not quixotic.

You forgot to turn off your hipster vision.
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