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Inside the Mirrortocracy

carlos.bueno.org

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Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#21

Post by facepalm »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #14
facepalm wrote: post #13

So what is a good/correct hiring criterion? I was under the impression that nobody really knows. And I am not convinced that it is a bad idea to look for "cultural fit". For example I don't dismiss anybody as a programmer who has never heard about Paul Graham or Joel Spolsky, but certainly consider it weird and it's probably at least a minus in my book.

Some people live and breathe valley culture and others don't. I have met great programmers and just generally smart people on both sides of the fence. It's not the particular cultural understanding that makes them good or bad. It is usually something else. I wouldn't hold it against you if all you did in your spare time was paint portraits but for your day job you were a programmer. In fact that kind of variety in in…

So where is the fundamental argument against monocultures? The paypal founder seems to disagree? Is it just political correctness, or is there some hard data?

In theory I am all for diversity, but I can imagine that in some endeavours it helps if you get along with the people in your team. I don't think "hiring what you know" is really that much of a mistake. I would hire my friends, for example, because I already know I get along with them.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#22

Post by facepalm »

watwut wrote: post #20
facepalm wrote: post #13

So what is a good/correct hiring criterion? I was under the impression that nobody really knows. And I am not convinced that it is a bad idea to look for "cultural fit". For example I don't dismiss anybody as a programmer who has never heard about Paul Graham or Joel Spolsky, but certainly consider it weird and it's probably at least a minus in my book.

I do not think that great programmer necessary reads a lot of what amounts to soft "programming/founder lifestyle" blogs. Especially since those two seem to be behind the peek of their fame. I do not remember their names appearing in major tech sites nor on any smaller topic/framework focused ones last years. Plus, you would discriminate against tech oriented programmers that focus more on technological side of the t…

So what blogs would a modern programmer read? I learned a lot from Joel, and I am not really aware of any blog that compares.

I don't get why it is supposedly a bad thing to judge people by their preferences, either. Why shouldn't I prefer to mingle with people who like the same things as I do? By definition, I probably wouldn't like the things those other people like, which would make for awkward dinner conversations and so on (what if they cherish Michael Bolton????). It's good to sometimes leave the filter bubble, but maybe hiring (where you will be stuck with somebody for years) is not the right place for it.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#23

Post by InclinedPlane »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #6

> This implies that there is a large untapped talent pool to be developed. Since the tech war boils down to a talent war, the company that figures out how to get over itself and tap that pool wins...You want a juicy industry to disrupt? How about your own? This is a great post, but I take issue with the author's conclusion. The harsh reality is that most of these so-called Valley Culture startups aren't actually comp…

Indeed. And this is a particular problem in tech and the valley especially. In many other industries and other locations is perfectly acceptable to just run a business. Make stuff that people want and get on with your lives. But in an SV startup you exist in this bizarre world where if you're not changing the world with engineers who are the best of the best of the best then you're somehow fucking up. They don't actually hire the top 1% (or even 10%) of engineers but they create an elaborate kabuki dance which gives them plausible rationalizability that they do.

The downside is more than just passing up good engineers though. Lots and lots of research has shown that more diverse teams come up with superior and more robust solutions to problems. When everyone thinks the same way about a problem they come up with the same solutions, but this just exacerbates the problems of satisficing. When there's diversity and a true interchange of ideas combined with robust intellectual skepticism and criticism innovation is enhanced and it's easier to break out of the local minima trap.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#24

Post by lilsunnybee »

austinz wrote: post #3

That linked 42Floors blog post is terribly self-unaware. > Most startups take the building of their culture very seriously, especially when the culture is still new and quite fragile. If your culture is so fucking fragile that a guy wearing a suit (as opposed to a T-shirt and jeans) poses an existential threat to it, you need to re-evaluate whether you are actually building a company 'culture', or just some random ag…

> Sometimes we’ll have a thirty minute interview extend the rest of the day and into the evening. We don’t mandate it, and we don’t ding you if you have other plans. But when it works out organically, it’s a nice thing for everyone and it moves the process along much faster.

Yeah we're not going to penalize you if you don't have your schedule completely open. Like if you have kids or commitments or something. It's cool! But it's also sort of a strong signal that you're just not going to be a good fit here.

> My friend Shawn just brought organic heirloom carrots and a 6-pack of Sightglass coffee to an interview as a gift. That’s awesome.

If you want to improve your chances of getting hired just bring some awesome gifts along. Also it helps a lot if you're already a friend of someone here, which totally isn't insularity it's just having a strong network and connections.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#25

Post by lilsunnybee »

facepalm wrote: post #22
watwut wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think that great programmer necessary reads a lot of what amounts to soft "programming/founder lifestyle" blogs. Especially since those two seem to be behind the peek of their fame. I do not remember their names appearing in major tech sites nor on any smaller topic/framework focused ones last years. Plus, you would discriminate against tech oriented programmers that focus more on technological side of the t…

So what blogs would a modern programmer read? I learned a lot from Joel, and I am not really aware of any blog that compares. I don't get why it is supposedly a bad thing to judge people by their preferences, either. Why shouldn't I prefer to mingle with people who like the same things as I do? By definition, I probably wouldn't like the things those other people like, which would make for awkward dinner conversation…

So basically you don't really believe that diversity and social mobility are important with regards to the workplace.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#26

Post by Ma8ee »

facepalm wrote: post #22
watwut wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think that great programmer necessary reads a lot of what amounts to soft "programming/founder lifestyle" blogs. Especially since those two seem to be behind the peek of their fame. I do not remember their names appearing in major tech sites nor on any smaller topic/framework focused ones last years. Plus, you would discriminate against tech oriented programmers that focus more on technological side of the t…

So what blogs would a modern programmer read? I learned a lot from Joel, and I am not really aware of any blog that compares. I don't get why it is supposedly a bad thing to judge people by their preferences, either. Why shouldn't I prefer to mingle with people who like the same things as I do? By definition, I probably wouldn't like the things those other people like, which would make for awkward dinner conversation…

Are you hiring a pal or a professional? Maybe it's useful to have someone different than you who can spot a different kind of flaws than you in the latest fad framework. Who gives a damn if it is Michael Bolton in someone else's earphones.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#27

Post by facepalm »

lilsunnybee wrote: post #25
facepalm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what blogs would a modern programmer read? I learned a lot from Joel, and I am not really aware of any blog that compares. I don't get why it is supposedly a bad thing to judge people by their preferences, either. Why shouldn't I prefer to mingle with people who like the same things as I do? By definition, I probably wouldn't like the things those other people like, which would make for awkward dinner conversation…

So basically you don't really believe that diversity and social mobility are important with regards to the workplace.

I am asking you why you think it is important. I am not really interested in "beliefs". It seems curious that it is automatically assumed that diversity is beneficial. As I said, maybe there is a reason why your pals are your pals and you work better together with them than with strangers.

I guess I believe that a company does not have a moral obligation to foster diversity and social mobility. It is possible that a company can benefit from that, though (ie wider candidate pool - lower wages, and so on).

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#28

Post by tempodox »

x0x0 wrote: post #2

Carlos sounds like a wanker who spends too much time reading trust fund assholes on gawker bitch (and lie! Hi Sam) about startups. Way over here in reality: I've worked for 6 startups, some you've heard of, and some you haven't. At the smallest I was employee 6; at the largest ~60. Now, I'm not claiming I've never seen unprofessional behavior, but 1 - the interview process has been pretty obvious. Yes, I've grabbed d…

10 ... But the small startups don't have the resources to do much about it.

This is not about moral obligations. It's about how stupid it is to use such a subjective filter for potential hires while lying to yourselves how “open” and “cool” you are.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#29

Post by facepalm »

Ma8ee wrote: post #26
facepalm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what blogs would a modern programmer read? I learned a lot from Joel, and I am not really aware of any blog that compares. I don't get why it is supposedly a bad thing to judge people by their preferences, either. Why shouldn't I prefer to mingle with people who like the same things as I do? By definition, I probably wouldn't like the things those other people like, which would make for awkward dinner conversation…

Are you hiring a pal or a professional? Maybe it's useful to have someone different than you who can spot a different kind of flaws than you in the latest fad framework. Who gives a damn if it is Michael Bolton in someone else's earphones.

Some people seem to expect more from their job than just a place in a cubicle where they can do their duty for 8 hours and then go home. They want to have fun, be together with cool people and so on. If you can't bond over music, there is one fun factor less (btw Michael Bolton was a reference to the movie "Office Space").

If you manage to run your company as a factory where individuality doesn't matter, only code output or whatever, good for you. I don't see why it should be the go-to model for everyone, though.

I seem to remember blog posts about the music system at GitHub. Not sure if they play music over speakers? If anybody would put Michael Bolton on, the feelgood atmosphere might receive a serious dent.

Btw I am not a recruiter.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#30

Post by JonnieCache »

facepalm wrote: post #22
watwut wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think that great programmer necessary reads a lot of what amounts to soft "programming/founder lifestyle" blogs. Especially since those two seem to be behind the peek of their fame. I do not remember their names appearing in major tech sites nor on any smaller topic/framework focused ones last years. Plus, you would discriminate against tech oriented programmers that focus more on technological side of the t…

So what blogs would a modern programmer read? I learned a lot from Joel, and I am not really aware of any blog that compares. I don't get why it is supposedly a bad thing to judge people by their preferences, either. Why shouldn't I prefer to mingle with people who like the same things as I do? By definition, I probably wouldn't like the things those other people like, which would make for awkward dinner conversation…

> (what if they cherish Michael Bolton????)

I can only imagine you'd have to kill them with the soup spoon to save yourself.

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