Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health • Hacker News Board

Re: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health

#21

Post by incision » Tue, May 27, 2014, 3:56 PM UTC

My anecdotal experience as a lifelong (since birth) lacto-ovo vegetarian leads me to think there's something to this.

I can't speak to the conclusions exactly, but the reasoning - dietary deficiencies - rings true to me. I've experienced dramatic results from supplementing with creatine, choline, zinc and omega 3s. The fact that this article cites so many of things I've come to independent conclusions about seems worthy of consideration.

One thing I'd be really curious about with regard to any correlation between vegan/vegetarianism and mental health issues is simply which came first. Again anecdotally, I've met a lot of vegatarian converts - many for whom I'd wager food is just one manifestation of an existing neurosis.

Re: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health

#22

Post by manojlds » Tue, May 27, 2014, 4:00 PM UTC

I am Indian, and have been vegetarian since birth. Born into a family of vegetarians, and our ancestors have been vegetarians for centuries. We are fine, thank you.

I think this article is about those in the West who try out being vegetarian. I wish that can be made explicit in the article and the comments here.

Re: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health

#23

Post by rdmcfee » Tue, May 27, 2014, 4:00 PM UTC

Just wanting to reiterate that this is an observational cohort study that shows only a weak correlation. There's no casual information at all in the study referenced in this post and the correlation is so weak that it's unlikely to even provide useful hypotheses for future interventional studies.

Everyone I know who's a vegetarian was a bit wacky to start with :)

Re: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health

#24

Post by tgb » Tue, May 27, 2014, 4:03 PM UTC

manojlds wrote: post #22

I am Indian, and have been vegetarian since birth. Born into a family of vegetarians, and our ancestors have been vegetarians for centuries. We are fine, thank you. I think this article is about those in the West who try out being vegetarian. I wish that can be made explicit in the article and the comments here.

It's actually about Austrians - or at least that's where the data came from. I believe it's pretty explicit in the article, though I did have to check the linked journal article to make sure.

Re: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health

#25

Post by scarmig » Tue, May 27, 2014, 4:05 PM UTC

Vegetarian for ethical/environmental reasons. I buy that this could be the case and would be surprised if there weren't some bad effects to go along with the good. The source, however, leaves a lot to be desired.

I look forward to meat growing on trees, so we can study meat without a bunch of ideology creeping in (from either the vegetarianism-is-ethically-good-therefore-it-must-be-healthier crowd or the I-hate-vegetarians-and-love-meat-therefore-meat-must-be-required crowd).

Re: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health

#26

Post by tormeh » Tue, May 27, 2014, 4:06 PM UTC

err4nt wrote: post #14

IdAgreeWithThat wrote: post #8

As a vegetarian for over 10 years, I can say that this isn't surprising to me. There are all sorts of people who hop around different health trends to fix issues that they have in their lives, and many of them end up participating in a vegetarian diet at some point. You also have a group of people who falsely claim to be vegetarian (just to have something else to say about themselves, or due to a poor understanding o…

I've been a vegetarian for seven years and when I started I was squarely in the "a lot of people who try out a vegetarian diet with a strong predisposition that they will suffer negative health consequences" group. You know how sometimes you get that sinking feeling like you know something you don't want to admit? Well I kept getting that sinking feeling like I couldn't be fully creative, or fully useful to others wh…

Are you sure the physical effects don't just come from eating more fruit and vegetables? What did you eat before you went vegetarian? Lots of grains?

Re: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health

#27

Post by zacinbusiness » Tue, May 27, 2014, 4:06 PM UTC

finleye wrote: post #17

zacinbusiness wrote: post #15

There is a pretty strong anti-vegetarianism sentiment where I'm from (the Southeast U.S.). I see it (as a vegetarian for almost 5 years now) when I visit the grocery store and, annoyingly, from my family. At the grocery store I am often asked "What, are you some kind of vegetarian or something?" when I buy tofu, tempeh, lots of vegetables, and no meat products. And when I say yes, people are often flabbergasted. "I c…

I'm also from the Southeast, and had the same issues. Ridicule from family and sometimes even strangers. I've been vegan now for 5 years. I've never had so many people concerned about my protein intake. Moving to NYC changed all that though. It's not unusual here, and the food is a lot better.

Yeah the whole "but where do you get your protein" thing gets old after about 30 seconds. I have answered many emails and Facebook posts with this: http://bit.ly/1nQx8EQ

Re: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health

#28

Post by 1457389 » Tue, May 27, 2014, 4:09 PM UTC

I remember this study doing the rounds a few weeks ago. The consensus back then was that there were significant confounding factors. For one thing, you can't be sure that the vegetarians you include in the set didn't become vegetarian specifically to address some lifestyle problem or health issue. Based on my anecdotal experience of vegetarians in wealthy first world nations, a large proportion include health concerns as part of their justification for vegetarianism.

Might have been useful to only include vegetarians who had been on their diet for a minimum length of time, or exclude those who said they had health issues.

Another issue someone already noted below, but the cherrypicking involved in going from thousands of survey responses to the few hundred they actually used must have been enormous.

Re: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health

#29

Post by hoggle » Tue, May 27, 2014, 4:15 PM UTC

incision wrote: post #21

My anecdotal experience as a lifelong (since birth) lacto-ovo vegetarian leads me to think there's something to this. I can't speak to the conclusions exactly, but the reasoning - dietary deficiencies - rings true to me. I've experienced dramatic results from supplementing with creatine, choline, zinc and omega 3s. The fact that this article cites so many of things I've come to independent conclusions about seems wor…

I've been vegetarian / vegan for almost 10 years myself and get my vitamin b12 levels checked regularly. A lot of meat eaters actually have low vitamin b12 levels too because of lower intrinsic factor (gut ability to absorb b12) caused by age or distinct genetic setup. Omega 3 is also something I keep in check with 2-3 table spoons of ground flax-seeds a day. Flax oil is a good source of omega 3 as well but much more difficult to handle because it needs to be fresh, cooled and consumed relatively quickly.

Be aware that a vitamin b12 deficiency often happens without symptoms, also meeting the lower threshold of acceptable levels doesn't mean you have got enough of it.

I would advise everyone but especially those on a vegan diet to get their vitamin b12 levels checked regularly. Take your supplements! Don't ruin your brains!

Check out this very informative video by Michael Greger - vegetarian / vegan himself, he has debunked a lot of myths around proper veg diet some 12 years ago (yes the video is pretty long - so what it's your health that is at stake here):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7KeRwdIH04

Also good books on the topic:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/541482.The_New_Becoming_V...

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/48307.Becoming_Vegan

Don't be a pudding veggie, be informed and healthy!

Re: Vegetarian Diets and Mental Health

#30

Post by sremani » Tue, May 27, 2014, 4:15 PM UTC

manojlds wrote: post #22

I am Indian, and have been vegetarian since birth. Born into a family of vegetarians, and our ancestors have been vegetarians for centuries. We are fine, thank you. I think this article is about those in the West who try out being vegetarian. I wish that can be made explicit in the article and the comments here.

I am the same. Just want to add, if you want to be a vegetarian-convert try it by consuming traditional foods from vegetarian cultures it has done the trick for some of my friends. Vegetarian foods from traditional vegetarian cultures tend to be closest to wholesome vegetarian diet rather than the salad option available to most westerners or any other hap-hazard cookbook.