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Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

#21

Post by Crito »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #16

I find it more interesting that they are growing this lettuce in a completely artificial environment at scale. One step toward a closed loop habitat but at a potentially larger scale than simple aquaponics installations. I'm still waiting for a 'high rise' farm, basically a multi-story hydroponics installation which can produce more food per surface acre than an existing farm can. If you can master the pollination cy…

"If you can master the pollination cycle and control pests through environmental controls you have the basis for a sort of 'super-organic' type of farm."

Ironically, if you mastered indoor multi-story growing and it became the norm, you would almost certainly create a new marketing label for food that was grown in one layer outdoors. Similar to how we currently have a marketing label for "organic" food.

Re: Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

#22

Post by VLM »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #9
lifeformed wrote: post #8

How does the potassium get reduced by being grown in a clean room?

Its in the article, but somewhat hidden: "No pesticide is used and because the lettuce is produced in a clean room, it stays fresh for about two weeks when stored at 10 degrees Celsius or lower." They don't need to use pesticides because of the clean room, which in turn makes for lower potassium content in the lettuce.

That's whats implied in the article, and it may be true, or a part of the truth, aside from that, from growing up with my gentleman farmer uncle, I know low K results in weak stems/leaves. This was often a problem with his popcorn field (yes there are specific breeds of corn for popcorn its not just generic corn, although he also grew sweetcorn for picnics and stuff... he was a popular guy) Those lettuce plants would probably blow flat if you breathed on them hard, much less put them out in the wind. I would predict low-K lettuce is significantly less crunchy that normal lettuce.

Re: Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

#23

Post by ars »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #9
lifeformed wrote: post #8

How does the potassium get reduced by being grown in a clean room?

Its in the article, but somewhat hidden: "No pesticide is used and because the lettuce is produced in a clean room, it stays fresh for about two weeks when stored at 10 degrees Celsius or lower." They don't need to use pesticides because of the clean room, which in turn makes for lower potassium content in the lettuce.

> it stays fresh for about two weeks

That's hardly special. I've stored lettuce that I bought commercially for 4 weeks and it was fine. So that's 4 weeks plus however long it took to get to me. (I bought too much by mistake.)

Re: Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

#24

Post by ChuckMcM »

mikegreen wrote: post #17
ChuckMcM wrote: post #16

I find it more interesting that they are growing this lettuce in a completely artificial environment at scale. One step toward a closed loop habitat but at a potentially larger scale than simple aquaponics installations. I'm still waiting for a 'high rise' farm, basically a multi-story hydroponics installation which can produce more food per surface acre than an existing farm can. If you can master the pollination cy…

Growing more food per acre in an indoor hydroponic farm is a reality today. The problem is your romaine from that hydro farm down the road is $3.99, and from the traditional farm shipped across the country is $1.99. Lights are a big part of the equation. Most plants need 10+ hours of sunlight a day, so even if you put the plants on a rotisserie you still have to supplement with artificial light ($$$). The amount of w…

Do you have any links/references for a large scale hydroponics operation? This was the last significant piece I read (http://modernfarmer.com/2013/06/dirt-free-farming-will-hydro...) which was from last June that talked primarily about the costs.

There are externalities that are increasing the cost of 'land' farming, among them water availability, GMO concerns, pest control, and land/labor costs. At some point robot harvested, hydroponically grown, vegetables will cap the cost of producing food that way. And if the 'old fashioned' way will become more expensive than that.

The key difference in cost between the two is, as you point out, the cost of energy. Using 'free' solar power versus using grow lights, changes the equation fairly dramatically. But one of the possible futures is that humans will master the ability to harvest more abundant energy. In so doing, I believe humans will have changed the economics of hydroponics dramatically, and things like pest control and labor cost advantages will swing over to the hydroponics side.

Re: Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

#25

Post by jerf »

iwwr wrote: post #11

This pushes home the idea that to have food you essentially need energy. If electricity were abundant enough it could even make sense to grow vegetables close to people in cities, perhaps in the same buildings.

It's almost all energy... food, electricity, clean water, a lot of recycling options, even hydrocarbons could be synthesized from atmospheric carbon if you have cheap enough energy. The only exception is atoms, and even for many of those, if energy was cheap enough, we can just go get some more of the desirable atoms, like the rare earths, from space. Civilization is ultimately all about the energy.

Re: Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

#26

Post by avitous »

walshemj wrote: post #15
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #4

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7749595 They grow that stuff for people with kidney problems, they have to follow a diet that is low in potassium.

Indeed we do - though my advice from the renal dieticians didn't mention lettuce - will have to ask at my next checkup. Ironically when I aske about the lo-salt versions of things like soy sauce she commented no the crap they put in to replace salt is worse :-)

Often what is used to 'replace' salt is potassium chloride, which would be dangerous for those with kidney issues. I take a popular medication for high blood pressure control, lisinopril, which can interfere with potassium elimination by the kidneys so I have to be careful with it myself. I haven't needed to avoid potassium-rich foods which contain it naturally (periodic testing of potassium serum levels confirms this), but artificial supplementation with potassium chloride can be especially dangerous; V-8 vegetable juice is an excellent example: it's processed so heavily during production that nutrient are destroyed, so supplements are added, including enough potassium chloride to bring potassium levels to > 700mg in a 6 oz serving, so it's best avoided.

Re: Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

#27

Post by evan_ »

leoedin wrote: post #12
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #2

For those unaware, Yen has no subdivisions, so think of ¥1 as 1¢ or 1p, and ¥100 as $1/€1/£1.

$1 maybe, but not £1. ¥100 is worth £0.58 - quite a big difference.

I think the GP just meant that ¥450-500 isn't as much as it might sound like

Re: Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

#28

Post by mikegreen »

VLM wrote: post #20
mikegreen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing more food per acre in an indoor hydroponic farm is a reality today. The problem is your romaine from that hydro farm down the road is $3.99, and from the traditional farm shipped across the country is $1.99. Lights are a big part of the equation. Most plants need 10+ hours of sunlight a day, so even if you put the plants on a rotisserie you still have to supplement with artificial light ($$$). The amount of w…

I grow herbs in my house in a consumer grade hydro system (really, like basil and mint, and sometimes lettuce, not weed) and a big thing for the organic types is no herbicides and no pesticides and that is pretty trivial for indoor hydro.

Right. But, having no herbicide/pesticide/chemicals used does not make it organic. Many folks want that "organic" label on it.

Re: Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

#29

Post by mikegreen »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #24
mikegreen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing more food per acre in an indoor hydroponic farm is a reality today. The problem is your romaine from that hydro farm down the road is $3.99, and from the traditional farm shipped across the country is $1.99. Lights are a big part of the equation. Most plants need 10+ hours of sunlight a day, so even if you put the plants on a rotisserie you still have to supplement with artificial light ($$$). The amount of w…

Do you have any links/references for a large scale hydroponics operation? This was the last significant piece I read ( http://modernfarmer.com/2013/06/dirt-free-farming-will-hydro... ) which was from last June that talked primarily about the costs. There are externalities that are increasing the cost of 'land' farming, among them water availability, GMO concerns, pest control, and land/labor costs. At some point robo…

farmedhere is the biggest I know of in the US: http://farmedhere.com/2013/urban-agriculture-grows-up

Re: cost -- "FarmedHere CEO Jolanta Hardej says a 5.5-ounce box of its arugula retails in local markets for $4.99, 50 to 75 cents more than imported organic arugula. Still, she says it sells out because it is fresher and tastier. "

That is a ton, price wise, considering it is over the price of the organic which is over the price of what most consumers are buying.

If you can use solar to power lights within your grow building, good, but you'll never make it a 1:1 sun:light ratio... Plus the cost of panels (going down).

I'm not a naysayer, just trying to be realistic. I have a fair amount of stuff growing in my basement in a mostly hands-off approach (reporting is here: http://www.oakwoodproduce.com/hydrolog/dashboard.html).. I think after a year I am breaking even or even ahead on kale, chard, lettuce, and for sure herbs. We haven't bought leafy greens or herbs in a long time, and often give away to the neighbors, food trucks, etc. My monthly cost is around $80 for lights and $20 for water/nutrients/supplies/seeds.

Tomatoes and peppers get pricey - need higher powered, hotter lights which need cooling and more electricity...

Re: Fujitsu harvests low-potassium lettuce grown in semiconductor plant

#30

Post by chc »

ars wrote: post #23
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its in the article, but somewhat hidden: "No pesticide is used and because the lettuce is produced in a clean room, it stays fresh for about two weeks when stored at 10 degrees Celsius or lower." They don't need to use pesticides because of the clean room, which in turn makes for lower potassium content in the lettuce.

> it stays fresh for about two weeks That's hardly special. I've stored lettuce that I bought commercially for 4 weeks and it was fine. So that's 4 weeks plus however long it took to get to me. (I bought too much by mistake.)

Was that at 10°C or higher?
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