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How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

economist.com

21–30 of 47 posts

Re: How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

#21
post #14
post #9

Of course, you're comparing apples and oranges because the price of a Big Mac is determined by the local market for Big Macs. In some places, McDonalds is considered upscale food because it's American, because it's less common, etc. In some places, the quality of McDonalds is much higher (kosher burgers in Israel, I think).

The data is also a good indication of brand consciousness in a country. People are paying a premium for the American brand. In Beijing, a big mac meal could cost double or triple what you could get at a local restaurant. It's seen as high class (partially because it is so expensive) and parents treat their kids to a happy meal on their birthday.

I would argue the east asian McD's are more seen as trendy than 'high class'. High class perhaps in pricing, but nobody sees it as 'high class food'.

Re: How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

#22
post #17
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I really generating N sandwiches worth of value every few minutes? Yes, you really are. We're programmers and businessmen -- our value scales waaaaaay the heck out of proportion to the amount of time we spend on something. I think that is awesome. (If I was a big proponent of income equality, I'd really hate it. I can do an honest day's work while sleeping by setting a system in motion to do it for me -- no manual…

As awesome as it is for us, it is incredibly shitty for the folks working in sweatshops in asia. I am pro capitalism, but the current system does have pretty deep social costs. [a second caveat being I can suggest no superior practical alternative]

it is incredibly shitty for the folks working in sweatshops in asia.

No, poverty is incredibly shitty for the folks working in sweatshops in Asia. Nike didn't invent poverty. It got there a long time before Nike -- or America, or the nation of China for that matter. Poverty is the natural state of the human condition.

For most of human civilization, we've had societies where almost everyone was desperately poor and then a few people were marginally less poor. (Poor Americans eat better and have better healthcare than European aristocrats from a few centuries ago. Plus, they don't defecate in buckets they sleep next to, which is a plus.)

The newfangled innovation brought about by capitalism isn't poor people: its rich people. Rich people who are so overflowing with money they buy frivolous shoes, enabling some Chinese peasant to get off the farm. Chinese peasants are pretty much in favor of getting off the farm -- it gives their kids a much better shot at surviving to the age of 5, and means you don't have to deal with famine.

Re: How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

#23

The extremely small amount of time I have to work to earn a big mac seems grossly disproportionate to the labor involved in sourcing, manufacturing, and serving a Big Mac. Am I really generating N sandwiches worth of value every few minutes? Or am I (systemically) skimming value off the top of what's produced by individuals who are being paid disproportionately to the value they produce?

It doesn't matter. There are millions of people getting paid who produce zero or negative value (if that's possible?) their entire lives. Not that they have intentionally done anything wrong. Many people just end up on a path they believe is right but ends up going nowhere (ever hear of CIA agents chasing some guy their entire life only to find out it was all for nothing?). It's necessary for us to advance so don't feel bad. You chose your path. They chose theirs.

Re: How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

#24
post #18
post #9

Of course, you're comparing apples and oranges because the price of a Big Mac is determined by the local market for Big Macs. In some places, McDonalds is considered upscale food because it's American, because it's less common, etc. In some places, the quality of McDonalds is much higher (kosher burgers in Israel, I think).

How are kosher burgers higher quality?

It's somewhat subjective. This seems like a good summary:

http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-bett...

Re: How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

#25
post #20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data is also a good indication of brand consciousness in a country. People are paying a premium for the American brand. In Beijing, a big mac meal could cost double or triple what you could get at a local restaurant. It's seen as high class (partially because it is so expensive) and parents treat their kids to a happy meal on their birthday.

This is exactly what I've seen here in Mexico. The majority like to go to McDonald's for a mediocre event, like good grades, a pay raise or something to that effect. You would still be able to get a better meal for much less at your regular taco stand, but people pay the premium for the American brand. Whereas in other parts of the world some people go even twice a day.

Sitting here in Michigan, going to McDonald's is of course a total non-event, but going out for a birthday party at the local Mexican joint would not be considered out of line. All of the local Mexican joints are far more "upscale" than a taco stand, of course. (Oh, and Taco Bell is of course lumped in with McDonalds.)

The grass is always greener...

Re: How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

#26

The extremely small amount of time I have to work to earn a big mac seems grossly disproportionate to the labor involved in sourcing, manufacturing, and serving a Big Mac. Am I really generating N sandwiches worth of value every few minutes? Or am I (systemically) skimming value off the top of what's produced by individuals who are being paid disproportionately to the value they produce?

Things have no intrinsic value, only what people are ready to pay for them. There's no "fair" price for an ounce of gold; could be worth a lot right now, or nothing in another context. Same with your labour, or the labour of those making the big mac.

Re: How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

#27
post #23

The extremely small amount of time I have to work to earn a big mac seems grossly disproportionate to the labor involved in sourcing, manufacturing, and serving a Big Mac. Am I really generating N sandwiches worth of value every few minutes? Or am I (systemically) skimming value off the top of what's produced by individuals who are being paid disproportionately to the value they produce?

It doesn't matter. There are millions of people getting paid who produce zero or negative value (if that's possible?) their entire lives. Not that they have intentionally done anything wrong. Many people just end up on a path they believe is right but ends up going nowhere (ever hear of CIA agents chasing some guy their entire life only to find out it was all for nothing?). It's necessary for us to advance so don't f…

Your comment reminds me of something I saw once. I worked a night shift in a video factory in London years ago when I was backpacking around Europe and running low on funds. At one point I was working next to a guy whos job it was to prevent videos going into a shrink wrapper crooked because they'd get stuck in the machine. Thing was, they were all going in straight anyway. The guy was so tired he'd occasionally try to "straighten" the odd video to show he was doing his job - it would then get stuck and start melting. Fortunately after about 20 mins of nodding off he actually fell asleep in his chair at which point everything worked perfectly. Here was a man who was more productive while asleep.

Re: How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

#28
post #23

The extremely small amount of time I have to work to earn a big mac seems grossly disproportionate to the labor involved in sourcing, manufacturing, and serving a Big Mac. Am I really generating N sandwiches worth of value every few minutes? Or am I (systemically) skimming value off the top of what's produced by individuals who are being paid disproportionately to the value they produce?

It doesn't matter. There are millions of people getting paid who produce zero or negative value (if that's possible?) their entire lives. Not that they have intentionally done anything wrong. Many people just end up on a path they believe is right but ends up going nowhere (ever hear of CIA agents chasing some guy their entire life only to find out it was all for nothing?). It's necessary for us to advance so don't f…

Bad analogy; if the parent takes your advice he is like a CIA agent who figured out chasing some guy is all for nothing, but then keeps doing it.

Re: How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

#29

The extremely small amount of time I have to work to earn a big mac seems grossly disproportionate to the labor involved in sourcing, manufacturing, and serving a Big Mac. Am I really generating N sandwiches worth of value every few minutes? Or am I (systemically) skimming value off the top of what's produced by individuals who are being paid disproportionately to the value they produce?

You're generating the consumer price of N sandwiches of value every few minutes. Don't forget that, at least in the United States, many food items are heavily subsidized by the government. You (and to a larger extent, people richer than you) also pay for part of the actual cost in taxes.

Re: How long do you have to work to earn a Big Mac?

#30
post #22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As awesome as it is for us, it is incredibly shitty for the folks working in sweatshops in asia. I am pro capitalism, but the current system does have pretty deep social costs. [a second caveat being I can suggest no superior practical alternative]

it is incredibly shitty for the folks working in sweatshops in asia. No, poverty is incredibly shitty for the folks working in sweatshops in Asia. Nike didn't invent poverty. It got there a long time before Nike -- or America, or the nation of China for that matter. Poverty is the natural state of the human condition. For most of human civilization, we've had societies where almost everyone was desperately poor and t…

In what sense do poor Americans eat better than European aristocrats from a few centuries ago?
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