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'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

bbc.com

21–30 of 44 posts

Re: 'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

#21
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why bother, it'll taste like chicken anyway...

Hmmm, judging by the number of down-votes on my "it'll taste like chicken" comment I have the feeling I need to remind some of the evolutionary grandparents of the humble chicken. Remember that chickens, being birds, most likely are descended from small carnivorous dinosaurs. While the mentioned dinosaur is a vegetarian sauropod, both share a common ancestor.

But dinosaurs share a common ancester with humans. And we taste like pork, not chicken.

Re: 'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

#22

Does anyone else here ever wonder if some of these "new" dinosaurs are really just re-discoveries of known dinosaurs? The article even mentions that the skeletal remains are incomplete. What if a number of these sauropods are really all the same species, albeit at different stages of their life? Is size alone enough to create a new classification? Perhaps growth continued throughout the life of a sauropod, and the la…

I think you'll find this ted talk interesting, as it explores that exact idea:

http://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_shape_shifting_dinosaur...

It's also pretty entertaining to watch

Re: 'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

#23
From the BBC article: Weighing in at 77 tonnes, it was as heavy as 14 African elephants, and seven tonnes heavier than the previous record holder, Argentinosaurus.

According to the Wikipedia page about Dinosaur size[1], the biggest (and longest) dinosaur is Amphicoelias fragillimus (at 122 tons), not Argentinosaurus. So, won't this new dinosaur be the second heaviest?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_size#Heaviest_dinosaur...

Re: 'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

#24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing was different. The "Giant of Castelnau", even if he/she was actually as tall as the discoverer conjectured , wasn't wildly outwith the recorded range of human height - Robert Wadlow was 8'11" (2.72m) when he died, and was only 22. It's completely plausible to me that someone afflicted by the same disorder as Wadlow could've reached 3.5m just by being lucky enough to live longer, and it's also completely plaus…

>It's completely plausible to me that someone afflicted by the same disorder as Wadlow could've reached 3.5m just by being lucky enough to live longer, That's not plausible at all. Robert Wadlow as at the very limits of human height. He already numerous medical problems caused by his height and needed leg braces just to walk. There is no way a bronze age man with access to bronze age medical care was able to live lon…

I know little about the subject, but I'm sure there are differences between the limits of human height and the limits of biped primate height. If the giant of Castelnau were, as claimed, part of a "race of giants," it is not unreasonable to think this group explored the limits of biped height more profoundly, as a group, given that they could eliminate some (but not all) of the problems that height suggested.

On the latter point:

"There is no way a bronze age man with access to bronze age medical care was able to live long enough to grow nearly 3 feet taller than Wadlow."

You don't know that. Even in antiquity, with Iron Age medical care, men commonly lived to 100 years, with the absolute limit, as placed by the Etruscans, at 110 years, thus defining the Etruscan century at this number. Now, perhaps if the man in question was a giant there would be intrinsic difficulties in being gigantic, but natural selection within his tall genetic group could, as a group, overcome many of them. This is a very different situation that Robert Wadlow's, who did not come from exceptionally tall parents. If a group has selective pressure to become tall, it's an entirely different matter from an individual accidentally becoming tall.

Keep in mind there have been around 60 billion Homo Sapiens Sapiens, most of them outside historical record, and in prehistory, very isolated. This can commonly lead to vast phenotype differences. I would have to see stronger evidence to rule out that an adapted giant biped cannot reach 15 feet.

Re: 'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

#25
post #23

From the BBC article: Weighing in at 77 tonnes, it was as heavy as 14 African elephants, and seven tonnes heavier than the previous record holder, Argentinosaurus. According to the Wikipedia page about Dinosaur size[1], the biggest (and longest) dinosaur is Amphicoelias fragillimus (at 122 tons), not Argentinosaurus. So, won't this new dinosaur be the second heaviest? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_size#He…

That estimate seem to have been based on a single bone that was described in the 1870s, a bone that is now lost.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphicoelias_fragillimus

Re: 'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

#26
post #23

From the BBC article: Weighing in at 77 tonnes, it was as heavy as 14 African elephants, and seven tonnes heavier than the previous record holder, Argentinosaurus. According to the Wikipedia page about Dinosaur size[1], the biggest (and longest) dinosaur is Amphicoelias fragillimus (at 122 tons), not Argentinosaurus. So, won't this new dinosaur be the second heaviest? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_size#He…

Keep reading. There was only one fossil found and described in the 19th century, then lost. The results can't be verified and the size estimate may be completely wrong.

Re: 'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

#27
post #11

Does anyone else here ever wonder if some of these "new" dinosaurs are really just re-discoveries of known dinosaurs? The article even mentions that the skeletal remains are incomplete. What if a number of these sauropods are really all the same species, albeit at different stages of their life? Is size alone enough to create a new classification? Perhaps growth continued throughout the life of a sauropod, and the la…

I don't think species are classified solely on size. I'm pretty sure juvenile specimens have been discovered and identified as being the same species as the adult specimens. Yes, mistakes have been made, but my impression is that the bone shapes play a substantial and important role, perhaps moreso than just the size.

The idea that you can determine the size of an animal from a single bone comes from Cuvier and was an early development in paleontology. I don't know how much progress there has been on the task of putting it on a firm scientific footing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Cuvier#Principle_of_the...

Re: 'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

#28
post #25
post #23

From the BBC article: Weighing in at 77 tonnes, it was as heavy as 14 African elephants, and seven tonnes heavier than the previous record holder, Argentinosaurus. According to the Wikipedia page about Dinosaur size[1], the biggest (and longest) dinosaur is Amphicoelias fragillimus (at 122 tons), not Argentinosaurus. So, won't this new dinosaur be the second heaviest? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_size#He…

That estimate seem to have been based on a single bone that was described in the 1870s, a bone that is now lost. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphicoelias_fragillimus

Got it, thanks to your and tootie's replies.

Re: 'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

#29
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm, judging by the number of down-votes on my "it'll taste like chicken" comment I have the feeling I need to remind some of the evolutionary grandparents of the humble chicken. Remember that chickens, being birds, most likely are descended from small carnivorous dinosaurs. While the mentioned dinosaur is a vegetarian sauropod, both share a common ancestor.

But dinosaurs share a common ancester with humans. And we taste like pork, not chicken.

What common ancestor? You risk going so far back your suggestion is meaningless

Re: 'Biggest dinosaur ever' discovered

#30
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's completely plausible to me that someone afflicted by the same disorder as Wadlow could've reached 3.5m just by being lucky enough to live longer, That's not plausible at all. Robert Wadlow as at the very limits of human height. He already numerous medical problems caused by his height and needed leg braces just to walk. There is no way a bronze age man with access to bronze age medical care was able to live lon…

I know little about the subject, but I'm sure there are differences between the limits of human height and the limits of biped primate height. If the giant of Castelnau were, as claimed, part of a "race of giants," it is not unreasonable to think this group explored the limits of biped height more profoundly, as a group, given that they could eliminate some (but not all) of the problems that height suggested. On the…

>I would have to see stronger evidence to rule out that an adapted giant biped cannot reach 15 feet.

I didn't say an adapted biped can't reach 15 feet, but a modern human with a pituitary tumor cannot. Which is what the OP suggested. There are too many health problems associated with 9' giants of Wadlow's type for bronze age medicine to overcome, much less 12' or 15' giants.

>You don't know that. Even in antiquity, with Iron Age medical care, men commonly lived to 100 years, with the absolute limit, as placed by the Etruscans, at 110 years

I'm not talking about the lifespan of a normal human who happens not to develop any terminal illnesses, I'm talking about the lifespan of a giant with a pituitary tumor. At the extremes they have too many medical problems to live anywhere near a normal lifespan. Wadlow could barely walk, he couldn't feel his legs so he constantly developed blisters (this is what eventually killed him by the way), and like all extreme giants he had heart problems because his heart was enlarged and couldn't handle his pumping blood throughout his enormous frame.

Keep in mind these are the problems with a 9' giant. Now imagine the medical problems of a 12' giant. He would be a third taller and probably at least 2 times heavier. There is no way someone like that is going to survive in the bronze age, unless he is either of a subspecies that is adapted to growing that tall, or conditions were somehow different.

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