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NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

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Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#21

Post by adventured »

gaius wrote: post #17
sentenza wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also sheds some new light on the "China-hardware is bad for you" media campaign that was run right before Snowden happened. It seems that not buying American means keeping the American intelligence community out of ones network. But I guess you _actually_ can't trust the Chinese either. That doesn't leave many hardware vendors for heavy-duty network equipment to choose from.

Sure you can. The Chinese are 10,000 miles away and don't really care about Western domestic politics. It might be different if you are an arms or pharma company, but for the average citizen concerned about civil liberties, you really can trust the Chinese in this case.

China cares a great deal about Western politics. Their two biggest markets are the United States and Europe.

Check out the Chinese support of Hillary and Bill Clinton.

There has been a ton of illegal Chinese money all over US elections for decades. Read up on the scandals from the 1990's revolving around this, or the Chinese money that flowed to Hillary in 2008.

Obama.com is (was?) even owned by a money bundler out of China.

Or check out the Chinese hackers that targeted the Romney & Obama campaigns.

http://www.latimes.com/la-na-donors19oct19-story.html#page=1

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/04/04/china.clin...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/08/the-illegal...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/10/hillary-clin...

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4264134/ns/nbc_nightly_news_with_b...

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/06/18807056-...

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/10/08/exposin...

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#22

Post by pasbesoin »

smutticus wrote: post #19

How much hardware is actually made in the USA anymore? Most HW is manufactured in Taiwan, China, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia or maybe Mexico. I used to work for a router manufacturer that manufactured all of its equipment in Taiwan and Mexico. When we shipped to someone in Europe(for example) we shipped directly from Taiwan to Europe, not through the US. So I have to wonder how much of this stuff the NSA could actually…

This is not based upon any particular knowledge or expertise, but upon many years of casual observation, general news reporting, and anecdote from friends and whomever: Given their position as well as long-standing ties both politically and militarily as well as economically, I have to -- in my own mind -- seriously question the independence of anything of real interest to the U.S., that's happening in Taiwan.

I don't mean that the Taiwanese aren't their own people with their own interests; nonetheless, I would expect to find their various systems rather thoroughly and effectively infiltrated.

Again, I don't have any real knowledge in this regard. I'd welcome more knowledgeable comments in response to mine.

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#23

Post by danielweber »

beejiu wrote: post #14

This reminds me of a story about a TOR developer who suspected her keyboard from Amazon was intercepted and implanted, because the redirection was included in the delivery log. Seems quite likely it was, in light of Glenn's latest slides release. http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140124/10564825981/nsa-in...

What is the specific smoking gun I am supposed to see there?

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#24

Post by eyeareque »

How can we protect ourselves from this type of interception? It seems impossible. Why would any non-american customers buy US made devices? Any protections that are added can/will be bypassed if the US gov gets physical access (or even remote).

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#25

Post by eyeareque »

smutticus wrote: post #19

How much hardware is actually made in the USA anymore? Most HW is manufactured in Taiwan, China, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia or maybe Mexico. I used to work for a router manufacturer that manufactured all of its equipment in Taiwan and Mexico. When we shipped to someone in Europe(for example) we shipped directly from Taiwan to Europe, not through the US. So I have to wonder how much of this stuff the NSA could actually…

I'm not sure how much is shipped directly from the over seas manufacturer to the customer. However, the NSA could be intercepting RMA hardware as well.

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#26

Post by intslack »

smutticus wrote: post #19

How much hardware is actually made in the USA anymore? Most HW is manufactured in Taiwan, China, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia or maybe Mexico. I used to work for a router manufacturer that manufactured all of its equipment in Taiwan and Mexico. When we shipped to someone in Europe(for example) we shipped directly from Taiwan to Europe, not through the US. So I have to wonder how much of this stuff the NSA could actually…

Anything that's shipped from the US, basically. From the slides released with Greenwald's new book today: https://i.imgur.com/lCM0apx.png

Here's the source, but be warned that this is a 90 MB pdf: http://hbpub.vo.llnwd.net/o16/video/olmk/holt/greenwald/NoPl...

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#27

Post by stuki »

smutticus wrote: post #19

How much hardware is actually made in the USA anymore? Most HW is manufactured in Taiwan, China, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia or maybe Mexico. I used to work for a router manufacturer that manufactured all of its equipment in Taiwan and Mexico. When we shipped to someone in Europe(for example) we shipped directly from Taiwan to Europe, not through the US. So I have to wonder how much of this stuff the NSA could actually…

I simply cannot fathom how the NSA could hope to intercept and physically mess with every single piece of $10 to $10,000 router sold.

If true, and I have a hard time believing it is not, either this is done at the design level (and not just on router chips), or only for big ticket backbone and/or enterprise equipment.

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#28

Post by ds9 »

danielweber wrote: post #23
beejiu wrote: post #14

This reminds me of a story about a TOR developer who suspected her keyboard from Amazon was intercepted and implanted, because the redirection was included in the delivery log. Seems quite likely it was, in light of Glenn's latest slides release. http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140124/10564825981/nsa-in...

What is the specific smoking gun I am supposed to see there?

The Dulles area is known as a hub for US spook-agency headquarters and activities.

It's not obvious tho that this is suspicious - there's also a big airport there and it could be just a shipping facility. I guess the argument is that it is an unnecessary detour if it could have gone right to Alexandria.

I'd like to see (a) other CA shipments, say non-computer items, to Alexandria - and whether they go via Dulles and (b) a followup indicating whether Shepard found anything of interest.

Re: NSA Reportedly Intercepts And Alters Routers And Servers Exported From U.S.

#30

Post by ds9 »

eyeareque wrote: post #24

How can we protect ourselves from this type of interception? It seems impossible. Why would any non-american customers buy US made devices? Any protections that are added can/will be bypassed if the US gov gets physical access (or even remote).

Just about the time of the previous revelation of computers from outside the US being intercepted by TLAs, my new Lenovo was delayed for a long time in some customs facility (according to UPS tracking).

Software is not a concern as I blew away the preinstalled and put a relatively trusted OS on. But hardware - I haven't had time to look into it but I'm still wanting some sort of guide on what to look for after unscrewing the case.

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