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Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#21

Post by gottasayit »

Of course Clapper isn't going to be punished. Holder was held in contempt of Congress for stonewalling on Fast and Furious, but since pursuit of his punishment would require action from an Obama political appointee, nothing will happen.

No one went to jail for the Wall Street fiasco.

No one was fired for being wrong about WMDs in Iraq.

We still don't know anything about Benghazi while some poor sap who published a video rots in jail as a scapegoat... no one will suffer consequences.

No one in this administration will cooperate in determining the origins, extent, and details of the IRS attack on conservative political groups.

The list of government protecting its own goes on forever.

Why is anyone surprised that things are the same for this particular scandal? Particularly with this administration that gets a lot of political cover from the press?

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#22

Post by krapp »

eli wrote: post #18
josho wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, great. I'm very curious. I am honestly very interested to hear what you feel Snowden has done wrong? I had always assumed that for everyone except those with something to lose (e.g. politicians, bureaucrats) that Snowden 's actions were seen in high regard.

I think perhaps you've been consuming only media that mirrors your own viewpoint. Many people are upset that Snowden "violated his oath," that he took it upon himself to effectively dismantle programs he disagreed with (even if the program was indeed out of line), and that he fled from the consequences of his actions. If you believe public opinion polling, a majority of Americans don't like what he did and think he s…

Bear in mind another point - believing Snowden needs to stand trial doesn't necessarily presume a belief that he's guilty, or should be punished, either. Americans also tend to believe the justice system works as advertised.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#23

Post by freehunter »

eli wrote: post #18
josho wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, great. I'm very curious. I am honestly very interested to hear what you feel Snowden has done wrong? I had always assumed that for everyone except those with something to lose (e.g. politicians, bureaucrats) that Snowden 's actions were seen in high regard.

I think perhaps you've been consuming only media that mirrors your own viewpoint. Many people are upset that Snowden "violated his oath," that he took it upon himself to effectively dismantle programs he disagreed with (even if the program was indeed out of line), and that he fled from the consequences of his actions. If you believe public opinion polling, a majority of Americans don't like what he did and think he s…

Fleeing the consequences of his actions is akin to ducking after disagreeing with an irrational person. Right or wrong, they're about to hit you. You don't have to stand there and take it.

If he had faced the consequences of his actions, he wouldn't be around right now to continue this discussion.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#24

Post by rooster8 »

jerf wrote: post #11
noir_lord wrote: post #2

Because he has congress by the balls.

Impossible... Congress has no balls. To make this more than mere snark, seriously, committees of the size of Congress are nearly entirely structurally incapable of taking serious stands of this nature. That's not sarcasm, it's a real structural problem with committees, and despite how we often refer to it in humor, it's a fully real thing, not a joke. This is why the US still needs an executive branch, which is struc…

I thought OP was implying that he had dirt on anyone who would try to reprimand him. Everyone hesitates in a surveillance state.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#25

Post by SnakeDoc »

Snowden is an All American Hero.

People are quick to go down the rabbit hole and say he's a "traitor" because he fled to Russia... these are the same people who are all caught up in our Presidentially Manufactured Political-Beef with Russia in Ukraine.

Snowden is in Russia because it is the only country in this world that would stand up to the USA and say "no" to deportation requests.

We witnessed just how far USA is willing to strong-arm the international community -- even going so far to force-ground a Presidential Plane from Bolivia and then search his plane. -- That is outrageous.

Snowden should be brought back to the USA -- after a full Presidential Pardon, and then made into the first in-house US Spy Agency Watch Dog - reporting only to the American People, and the President.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#26

Post by SnakeDoc »

gottasayit wrote: post #21

Of course Clapper isn't going to be punished. Holder was held in contempt of Congress for stonewalling on Fast and Furious, but since pursuit of his punishment would require action from an Obama political appointee, nothing will happen. No one went to jail for the Wall Street fiasco. No one was fired for being wrong about WMDs in Iraq. We still don't know anything about Benghazi while some poor sap who published a vi…

Holder was not prosecuted further because Obama clamped down with Executive Privilege -- preventing any further inquiry (but also basically admitting something wrong was going on)

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#27

Post by rayiner »

josho wrote: post #12
danielweber wrote: post #5

I'm frequently not on Snowden's side (and Clapper being wrong doesn't necessarily make Snowden right), but he's completely on point here. Clapper directly lied to Congress under oath. He needs some kind of censure.

Oh, great. I'm very curious. I am honestly very interested to hear what you feel Snowden has done wrong? I had always assumed that for everyone except those with something to lose (e.g. politicians, bureaucrats) that Snowden 's actions were seen in high regard.

> I had always assumed that for everyone except those with something to lose (e.g. politicians, bureaucrats) that Snowden 's actions were seen in high regard.

I imagine this is entirely a function of your social circle. The polls conducted this year have been marginally in favor of his prosecution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentary_on_Edward_Snowden's_.... It's a deeply divisive issue for Americans, though it breaks along the usual lines (age, etc).

My dad, for example, who is very liberal on most things, is no fan of Snowden. Especially among the older generation who grew up during the Cold War, nothing Snowden revealed rises to the level of invasiveness that would be cause for alarm.

Most of the people I know simply do not care about surveillance. They're in the ideological majority, they don't have controversial opinions, and they (rightly) believe the government has no interest in using the fruits surveillance against them. They certainly don't sympathize with the ideas of hypothetical political dissidents that might be hypothetically suppressed using surveillance.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#28

Post by rayiner »

tokenadult wrote: post #19

There is some good reporting here by the Washington Post about the circumstances of Clapper's testimony to Congress. Readers here who know my comments know that I'm not fully happy with how Snowden chose to disclose information from inside NSA, and particularly not about his travel to China (Hong Kong) and Russia, but I think Snowden raises a fair point here. There is some genuine difference of opinion among American…

> Every national government in the civilized world needs an intelligence-gathering agency that can operate with some degree of operational secrecy.

> I think Congress is unsure about how to proceed on this issue because not all members of Congress are of one mind about what is best for the country in administration of NSA.

> The other reason I don't believe this HN hivemind theory of politics is that I by no means assume that everyone in politics lacks personal integrity.

None of these points should be controversial, but oh well.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#29

Post by izzydata »

geetee wrote: post #3

I'm surprised by the amount of anti-Snowden sentiment in the WaPo comments.

I was kind of surprised at that as well. Then I noticed it was the same few people who seem to be very upset. It isn't too unreasonable for a vocal minority to waste their time on something like that.
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