Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice

#21

Post by andreasvc » Tue, Apr 15, 2014, 3:48 PM UTC

forgotAgain wrote: post #10

Until now I agreed and have used Ubuntu for several years. I was however taken by surprise by how out of the mainstream Ubuntu seemed to security folks when Heartbleed was being identified and it's fix promulgated. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7592244 It left me wondering if Redhat's contributions to the security community give it a leg up. Any "cloud platform of choice" needs to be a first tier security plat…

I don't get what you're saying. From a cursory reading of your link, I don't see anything Ubuntu did wrong, it just seems that things moved very quickly with the disclosure. Am I missing something?

Re: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice

#22

Post by jcastro » Tue, Apr 15, 2014, 3:49 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #14

rlpb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu is also now moving to systemd, following its Debian base: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 Assuming that you're not a toolkit (or further down the stack) developer, can you explain why Mir affects you? What other "Canonical worldview items" affect you?

But systemd isn't going to be in 14.04. Like bananas, over the next year we'll be moving our production servers off of 12.04. Whatever we switch to will be in production for 3-4 years. So we have to ask ourselves, do we want to be stuck with upstart for another 3-4 years?

There are tons of production servers and laptops using upstart. It will take a while for Debian and Ubuntu to migrate to systemd so you're probably overthinking it.

RHEL7 isn't out yet, what server distros can you run in production today that use systemd?

Re: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice

#23

Post by kapilvt » Tue, Apr 15, 2014, 3:53 PM UTC

forgotAgain wrote: post #10

Until now I agreed and have used Ubuntu for several years. I was however taken by surprise by how out of the mainstream Ubuntu seemed to security folks when Heartbleed was being identified and it's fix promulgated. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7592244 It left me wondering if Redhat's contributions to the security community give it a leg up. Any "cloud platform of choice" needs to be a first tier security plat…

out of touch how?

the ubuntu pkg security update for openssl/heartbleed was available the same day of the public announcement, without the benefit of prior notification (unlike redhat who had prior notice and released their fix a day after the public announcement).

http://lwn.net/Articles/593861/

Re: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice

#24

Post by rlpb » Tue, Apr 15, 2014, 3:53 PM UTC

forgotAgain wrote: post #10

Until now I agreed and have used Ubuntu for several years. I was however taken by surprise by how out of the mainstream Ubuntu seemed to security folks when Heartbleed was being identified and it's fix promulgated. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7592244 It left me wondering if Redhat's contributions to the security community give it a leg up. Any "cloud platform of choice" needs to be a first tier security plat…

It isn't clear to me whether "which OpenSSL forwarded to Red Hat and others" includes Canonical or not. It is clear that Red Hat was included by that statement, but what makes you think that this is a bias in who received a direct notification, as opposed to a bias of the author of this particular article?

Re: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice

#25

Post by dharma1 » Tue, Apr 15, 2014, 3:53 PM UTC

bsilvereagle wrote: post #16

pedrocr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Ubuntu already dominant in cloud deployments?

In personal and small projects, yes. But not necessarily for large, scaled, infrastructure.

not sure which distro is dominant on scaled projects but Ubuntu gets plenty of use on large projects too - from the article:

"Global enterprises including AT&T, Bharti, Bouygues Telecom, British Telecom, China Telecom, China Unicom, Cogent Communications, Comcast, Deutsche Telekom, Korea Telecom, NEC, NTT, Numergy, Orange France, Time Warner Cable, Turk Telecom, Verizon and Yandex, as well as leading web scale services such as Netflix, Instagram, Hipchat and Quora are all building next generation services on Ubuntu"

Re: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice

#26

Post by jcastro » Tue, Apr 15, 2014, 3:54 PM UTC

bsilvereagle wrote: post #16

pedrocr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Ubuntu already dominant in cloud deployments?

In personal and small projects, yes. But not necessarily for large, scaled, infrastructure.

I wouldn't call Netflix, Instagram, HP's entire public cloud, and Wikipedia "personal and small projects". Did you even read the article?

Re: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice

#27

Post by pedrocr » Tue, Apr 15, 2014, 3:54 PM UTC

bsilvereagle wrote: post #16

pedrocr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Ubuntu already dominant in cloud deployments?

In personal and small projects, yes. But not necessarily for large, scaled, infrastructure.

As far as I have seen it's actually dominant in general. The only stats I found[1] say it is totally dominant in EC2 deployments (55% of the total with second place with 24% being a generic "linux").

[1] http://thecloudmarket.com/stats

Re: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice

#28

Post by puppetmaster3 » Tue, Apr 15, 2014, 3:54 PM UTC

bananas wrote: post #13

rlpb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu is also now moving to systemd, following its Debian base: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 Assuming that you're not a toolkit (or further down the stack) developer, can you explain why Mir affects you? What other "Canonical worldview items" affect you?

As follows: systemd - glad to hear that. Missed that one. Mir affects me because of the inevitable safety in numbers that going with the majority display server technology. Graphical stacks are terribly complicated and terribly involving for hardware manufacturers. Canonical are pretty much on their own with it and it takes a hell of a lot of people to keep the plates spinning on this. hell they can't even get X, DRM…

Just wondering, do you think mir or x is installed on servers?

Re: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice

#29

Post by agwa » Tue, Apr 15, 2014, 3:56 PM UTC

forgotAgain wrote: post #10

Until now I agreed and have used Ubuntu for several years. I was however taken by surprise by how out of the mainstream Ubuntu seemed to security folks when Heartbleed was being identified and it's fix promulgated. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7592244 It left me wondering if Redhat's contributions to the security community give it a leg up. Any "cloud platform of choice" needs to be a first tier security plat…

That timeline shows that Red Hat knew about Heartbleed exactly 14 minutes before the other distros did. Hardly sounds like a "leg up" to me.

The Heartbleed disclosure was kind of botched, but in general things go more smoothly, with all the major distros being informed ahead of time and having time to prepare patches. For example, see the Xen privilege escalation vulnerability in 2012, and the PostgreSQL remote execution vulnerability in 2013. In both cases, Ubuntu was informed ahead of time and had updates ready to roll when the vulnerability was publicly disclosed.

Re: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS: the cloud platform of choice

#30

Post by bananas » Tue, Apr 15, 2014, 3:56 PM UTC

rlpb wrote: post #20

bananas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As follows: systemd - glad to hear that. Missed that one. Mir affects me because of the inevitable safety in numbers that going with the majority display server technology. Graphical stacks are terribly complicated and terribly involving for hardware manufacturers. Canonical are pretty much on their own with it and it takes a hell of a lot of people to keep the plates spinning on this. hell they can't even get X, DRM…

You're claiming "safety in numbers" by moving away from Ubuntu on the desktop? Surely you're joking? > Unity So don't use it. Ubuntu is more than just priority support items from Canonical. I'm using Xubuntu right now - it works great. > Launchpad is a total pile both from a tracking and management perspective. It's basically a baron land of neglect. As opposed to...Bugzilla? Again: surely you're joking?

Yes 100%.

I want stability. In fact I need stability and there's nothing more stable than a boring corporate desktop so...

CentOS 6.x's Gnome desktop despite being considerably older is an order of magnitude more stable, works flawlessly on every bit of kit I've tested it on and doesn't fall over on minor patches or kernel releases. I lost count of the number of times I've had power management and display regressions on 12.04 LTS. The only reason I ended up with LTS is because the NetworkManager VPN stuff that I need on my laptop is tied into later versions of NetworkManager which aren't supported on CentOS at the moment. I will say that they don't actually work on 14.04 either and I have to resort to manually adding a route because NM doesn't handle default routes properly.

On my personal laptop (Lenovo T400) I binned Ubuntu and actually run Windows now because the PM regressions were unbearable and the battery life was shitty even with 30 minutes pissing around with powertop.

Yes comparing to bugzilla. People haven't managed to displace bugzilla for a good reason: it works pretty damn well on massive projects.