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Mozilla just can't catch a break

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Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#21

Post by yummyfajitas »

te_chris wrote: post #11
mehwoot wrote: post #7

I don't know whether this is a joke or not, but what do you expect? Proposition 8 passed. A majority of people were in favor of it. You think those people would just rule out applying the same sort of pressure on mozilla that worked so effectively? This is why, despite supporting gay marriage, I think it is abhorrent that Brendan Eich was effectively forced to resign. He donated privately to a campaign that was suppo…

I don't want to live in a society where people with bigoted and regressive views are merely considered as a difference of opinion. Human rights are absolute. EDIT: So many downvotes, wow.

Communists violate human rights too. Bring back the blacklist?

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#22

Post by te_chris »

gf6554 wrote: post #17
te_chris wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live in a society where people with bigoted and regressive views are merely considered as a difference of opinion. Human rights are absolute. EDIT: So many downvotes, wow.

So it's either your way or the highway? For thousands of years, his opinion was considered the de facto. Are people now suddenly bigoted hate mongers for supporting the same view that President Obama supported just a few years ago?

So was slavery, what's your point? State sanctioned discrimination is not just a difference of opinion issue, to reduce it to that is patronising and insulting in the extreme to the people being discriminated.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#24

Post by te_chris »

drawkbox wrote: post #18
te_chris wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live in a society where people with bigoted and regressive views are merely considered as a difference of opinion. Human rights are absolute. EDIT: So many downvotes, wow.

Eich is a huge, HUGE proponent of the open web and helped co-found Mozilla. He created Javascript. He is a huge reason the web is so open and browser technologies made all of our lives better. He is also part of the reason Mozilla is so inclusive. Everything is a balance. His contributions to Mozilla, the open web, technology, fairness and many other things outweighs his one misstep by far. And if that is not possibl…

I was referring to the GP's sweeping "society" comment. State-sanctioned discrimination is not a difference of opinion issue. I don't care if people genuinely believe that gay people are immoral so long as their belief is not being used to legitimately undermine the human rights of a whole group of people with no rational justification other than fear and prejudice. I don't like that society and don't want to be part of it - thankfully I'm not, New Zealand legalised gay marriage and has none of the stupid religious conservatism in our politics that the USA has.

Eich, in this wider societal context, means very little.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#25

Post by smtddr »

mehwoot wrote: post #7

I don't know whether this is a joke or not, but what do you expect? Proposition 8 passed. A majority of people were in favor of it. You think those people would just rule out applying the same sort of pressure on mozilla that worked so effectively? This is why, despite supporting gay marriage, I think it is abhorrent that Brendan Eich was effectively forced to resign. He donated privately to a campaign that was suppo…

>> Proposition 8 passed. A majority of people were in favor of it.

This is debatable; there was a lot of propaganda from the prop8 supporters that confused people. One co-worker thought prop8 meant schools would actively teach her child about homosexuality. Any sexuality(hetero or homo) teaching in school should be first decided by the parent, ihmo. At least when I was growing up, parents had to sign a waiver/consent paper before the high-school kids were sent to the birds-and-bees classes.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/03/opinion/la-oe-fleish...

>> The Yes on 8 campaign targeted parents in its TV ads. "Mom! Guess what I learned in school today!" were the cheery-frightening first words of the supporters' most-broadcast ad. They emerged from the mouth of a young girl who had supposedly just learned that she could marry a female when she grew up.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#26

Post by waterlesscloud »

smtddr wrote: post #5
jasimq wrote: post #3

Freedom of speech goes both ways...

I probably shouldn't even bring this up. This whole thread will be knocked off the front-page shortly anyway... but I just had a heated debate with a coworker that's an Eich-supporter and found his logic disturbing and ethically broken when it expanded to views on racism, sexism, homophobia. But for all those people who support Eich and keep saying freedom-of-speech goes both ways even for "unpopular opinions": How w…

You'll note in that wiki article you linked, the Supreme Court has found hate speech restrictions to be unconstitutional.

There's also the case where the ACLU defended the right of neo-nazis to march in a town with a heavy Jewish population. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union#...

Hate speech is often despicable, but Freedom Of Speech has traditionally been taken very, very, VERY seriously in the US.

Personally, I feel it's a dangerous mistake to start policing hate speech, and I don't want to see it happen. I think the freedom to express whatever position you want on an issue, no matter how reprehensible, is crucial to the ideals of the nation.

If that means fringe groups say awful things, so be it. For me that's infinitely better than the alternative.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#27

Post by dubfan »

te_chris wrote: post #11
mehwoot wrote: post #7

I don't know whether this is a joke or not, but what do you expect? Proposition 8 passed. A majority of people were in favor of it. You think those people would just rule out applying the same sort of pressure on mozilla that worked so effectively? This is why, despite supporting gay marriage, I think it is abhorrent that Brendan Eich was effectively forced to resign. He donated privately to a campaign that was suppo…

I don't want to live in a society where people with bigoted and regressive views are merely considered as a difference of opinion. Human rights are absolute. EDIT: So many downvotes, wow.

Marriage is a sociopolitical construct, not a human right.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#28

Post by mehwoot »

te_chris wrote: post #11
mehwoot wrote: post #7

I don't know whether this is a joke or not, but what do you expect? Proposition 8 passed. A majority of people were in favor of it. You think those people would just rule out applying the same sort of pressure on mozilla that worked so effectively? This is why, despite supporting gay marriage, I think it is abhorrent that Brendan Eich was effectively forced to resign. He donated privately to a campaign that was suppo…

I don't want to live in a society where people with bigoted and regressive views are merely considered as a difference of opinion. Human rights are absolute. EDIT: So many downvotes, wow.

Actually, I would argue that actively campaigning for somebody be fired from their job for political views is much more bigoted, since you would surely have to be concretely convinced of the superiority of your own beliefs to think that means justifies the ends:

Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#29

Post by [deleted] »

smtddr wrote: post #5
jasimq wrote: post #3

Freedom of speech goes both ways...

I probably shouldn't even bring this up. This whole thread will be knocked off the front-page shortly anyway... but I just had a heated debate with a coworker that's an Eich-supporter and found his logic disturbing and ethically broken when it expanded to views on racism, sexism, homophobia. But for all those people who support Eich and keep saying freedom-of-speech goes both ways even for "unpopular opinions": How w…

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#30

Post by [deleted] »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #26
smtddr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably shouldn't even bring this up. This whole thread will be knocked off the front-page shortly anyway... but I just had a heated debate with a coworker that's an Eich-supporter and found his logic disturbing and ethically broken when it expanded to views on racism, sexism, homophobia. But for all those people who support Eich and keep saying freedom-of-speech goes both ways even for "unpopular opinions": How w…

You'll note in that wiki article you linked, the Supreme Court has found hate speech restrictions to be unconstitutional. There's also the case where the ACLU defended the right of neo-nazis to march in a town with a heavy Jewish population. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union#... Hate speech is often despicable, but Freedom Of Speech has traditionally been taken very, very, VERY seriously in…

[deleted]
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