Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

dragtimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 112 posts

Re: Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

#21

Post by viraptor »

mitchellh wrote: post #7
jcdavis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way is the drive control software is running linux, its almost certainly running on its own embedded system.

Absolutely, I agree, but the software update mechanism is somehow able to update or interface with that system. If you're able to jailbreak _that_, then its one less barrier in the way of taking over the drive control.

I'm sure only signed updates are allowed. Same as with intel microcode updates and most firmwares. They'd be highly irresponsible if jailbreaking was left possible.

Re: Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

#22

Post by langseth »

fleitz wrote: post #16
mitchellh wrote: post #3

The cool things: Tesla is running Linux (!) and standard technologies/protocols such as SSH, NFS, X11, HTTP, etc. to do things in the car. That is cool, and probably highly efficient since developer test labs can probably just be basic Ubuntu-like virtual machines. The sketchy things: Jailbreaking a car seems pretty dangerous, especially since as far as I'm aware, the electronic systems control things including the b…

Now... imagine you have a low tech car facing an attacker armed with a pair of side cutters. First, locate the hood, second, use the release to pop it. Locate the master cylinder, and the hose running to the engine, cut it. Now the brakes don't work very well. Locate the hose not running to the engine, cut that, now the brakes don't work at all. Imagine that any person strong enough to operate side cutters can hack i…

Is it even that complicated? Just cut one (or all 4) of the lines under the car that runs to the brake calipers. No need to get under the hood.

Re: Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

#23

Post by jnbiche »

driverdan wrote: post #4

“Tesla USA engineers have seen a tentative of hacking on my car.”, “can be related to industrial espionage and advised me to stop investigation, to not void the warranty”. So long as you don't cause any damage they can't void your warranty in the US thanks to the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.

And that's a mighty hacker-unfriendly stance to take for a company whose client base is made up of a disproportionately large number of engineers and computer scientists, many of whom will doubtless be curious as to the inner workings of their car computer systems.

I mean, could you imagine if a car manufacturer took this attitude toward car owners who were exploring the car's transmission, which is clearly just as critical to the car's safety as the car computer system?

My view of Tesla just sank a notch (but I still want one).

Edit: Actually, I thought about it a bit, and I actually don't want one anymore if this is the attitude that prevails inside the company. For the same reason that I don't want any Apple products. I'm far from a Stallman acolyte, but I'll be damned if I'll buy from a company that wants to forbid me from hacking on hardware that I have purchased and own.

Re: Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

#24

Post by mschuster91 »

eik3_de wrote: post #17
mschuster91 wrote: post #8

A quick google for the source code only revealed http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/archive/index.php/t-10748.htm... - apparently Tesla has never released the source code of the "modified Ubuntu" they're using. Whoops. Also, looks like Tesla has got international deals with mobile carriers for data flatrates. I'm looking forward to see the first guy stream youtube or youp*rn on the dashboard :D

If they don't modify gpl code but just configure existing software and add their own packages, do they still have to pub everything?

Yes, you at least have to say where to get the source from if you publish/distribute binaries to others.

Re: Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

#25

Post by gramasaurous »

fleitz wrote: post #16
mitchellh wrote: post #3

The cool things: Tesla is running Linux (!) and standard technologies/protocols such as SSH, NFS, X11, HTTP, etc. to do things in the car. That is cool, and probably highly efficient since developer test labs can probably just be basic Ubuntu-like virtual machines. The sketchy things: Jailbreaking a car seems pretty dangerous, especially since as far as I'm aware, the electronic systems control things including the b…

Now... imagine you have a low tech car facing an attacker armed with a pair of side cutters. First, locate the hood, second, use the release to pop it. Locate the master cylinder, and the hose running to the engine, cut it. Now the brakes don't work very well. Locate the hose not running to the engine, cut that, now the brakes don't work at all. Imagine that any person strong enough to operate side cutters can hack i…

Now imagine someone hiding in the hood of your car waiting to cut your brakes while you are traveling 80mph down the freeway.

Re: Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

#26

Post by lvs »

chris_mahan wrote: post #18
afhsfsfdsss88 wrote: post #6

As a hacker...Cool! As a driver who will have to occupy space around people playing with this while driving...F#&*!

Agreed. There should be a large warning on the console: "Warning to passengers: The Vehicle Systems have been Compromised. Please do not ride in this vehicle. A Service tow truck has been dispatched." Also, the car should not move.

Do you think the same thing about a car where the owner has, say, installed aftermarket brake calipers and suspension components? ... Because that's incredibly common.

Re: Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

#27

Post by taternuts »

dalke wrote: post #20
mitchellh wrote: post #3

The cool things: Tesla is running Linux (!) and standard technologies/protocols such as SSH, NFS, X11, HTTP, etc. to do things in the car. That is cool, and probably highly efficient since developer test labs can probably just be basic Ubuntu-like virtual machines. The sketchy things: Jailbreaking a car seems pretty dangerous, especially since as far as I'm aware, the electronic systems control things including the b…

You started with jailbreaking then transitioned to malicious software update - aren't those two different things? While it's possible that bad software would cause dangerous problems with the car, it's also possible that a bad repair job or bad part will as well. Yet we allow unlicensed mechanics, like the owner of the car, to do things like replace the brakes. While you may not be comfortable jailbreaking your own c…

I'm assuming the critical stuff is pretty walled off, but if I were Tesla I'd be nervous about someone potentially poking around with anything like that because they think they know what they are doing.

Re: Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

#28

Post by takeda »

jnbiche wrote: post #23
driverdan wrote: post #4

“Tesla USA engineers have seen a tentative of hacking on my car.”, “can be related to industrial espionage and advised me to stop investigation, to not void the warranty”. So long as you don't cause any damage they can't void your warranty in the US thanks to the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.

And that's a mighty hacker-unfriendly stance to take for a company whose client base is made up of a disproportionately large number of engineers and computer scientists, many of whom will doubtless be curious as to the inner workings of their car computer systems. I mean, could you imagine if a car manufacturer took this attitude toward car owners who were exploring the car's transmission, which is clearly just as c…

Given that the fires were blown out of proportion by the media, I'm totally not surprised that they reacted this way.

Imagine headlines if someone would be killed due to not correctly operating component because the owner used a buggy mod.

Re: Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

#29

Post by taternuts »

fleitz wrote: post #16
mitchellh wrote: post #3

The cool things: Tesla is running Linux (!) and standard technologies/protocols such as SSH, NFS, X11, HTTP, etc. to do things in the car. That is cool, and probably highly efficient since developer test labs can probably just be basic Ubuntu-like virtual machines. The sketchy things: Jailbreaking a car seems pretty dangerous, especially since as far as I'm aware, the electronic systems control things including the b…

Now... imagine you have a low tech car facing an attacker armed with a pair of side cutters. First, locate the hood, second, use the release to pop it. Locate the master cylinder, and the hose running to the engine, cut it. Now the brakes don't work very well. Locate the hose not running to the engine, cut that, now the brakes don't work at all. Imagine that any person strong enough to operate side cutters can hack i…

You're almost certainly going to notice you have no breaks way before you're going to be at a speed to do serious harm, especially in an urban setting.

Re: Tesla Model S Ethernet Network Explored

#30

Post by eik3_de »

mschuster91 wrote: post #24
eik3_de wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they don't modify gpl code but just configure existing software and add their own packages, do they still have to pub everything?

Yes, you at least have to say where to get the source from if you publish/distribute binaries to others.

but only if their binary is linked against a gpl library..?
Post reply on HN