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Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO

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Re: Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO

#21

Post by paulbaumgart »

insuffi wrote: post #16
paulbaumgart wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They left out "size and wealth of domestic market" and "access to capital," which I suspect are the most important factors beyond a minimal level of market fairness. It's really not self-evident that the vast majority of successful companies are started in the US?

As proven time and time again, most popular does not mean "the best".(especially, considering how many people there are in the US compared to any EU nation. That'd certainly explain the "number of successful businesses".) Do you think those people starting companies would do any worse, if we placed them in, say, Denmark? EDIT:Or maybe Israel, which has the highest density of start ups worldwide? I'd be curious to see…

> Do you think those people starting companies would do any worse, if we placed them in, say, Denmark?

Yes. Facebook, Apple, Google, Tesla, etc. would never have happened in Denmark. I'm really glad my parents did the annoying work of immigrating to the SF Bay Area from Germany when I was a kid. Otherwise I would have wasted years of my life doing it myself.

Did you watch the Elon Musk interview posted here the other day? He said more-or-less the same thing: it was really obvious, growing up in South Africa, that California was the place to be to make things happen.

Edit: I don't know much about Israel. They seem to be doing a pretty good job, based on what little I do know. It doesn't sound like they're at SF Bay Area levels yet, but making progress: http://aleph.vc/the-israel-venture-capital-index/

Re: Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO

#22

Post by myth_drannon »

mtrimpe wrote: post #10
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

This kind of thing seems to be one reason America is still the best place to start a business. I'm saying that in order to spark a debate and challenge that belief. Would anyone please list some actions taken by the US government which is similar in nature to the takeover illustrated here? It seems very similar to what happened in the middle ages. Before the rise of the merchant class, specifically the ability to def…

Most people don't realise that Russia is a brutal petro-chemical dictatorship in economical decline which is clamping down hard on human rights, freedom of the press and radicalising its population through propaganda. I've been following the Crimea conflict very closely (which almost certainly is also what caused Pavel's departure) and the seriousness of the situation is heavily underestimated by the world. The Russi…

replace "Russia" with "US" and "petro-chemical" with "military-industrial complex" or "financial" and your whole comment still makes sense as well

Re: Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO

#24

Post by mtrimpe »

johnnydoebk wrote: post #20
mtrimpe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says it in the article. Navalny was making statements condemning the Crimea annexation and giving advice on how best to apply economic sanction to the Kremlin-elite surrounding Putin. After the US followed his advice Navalny even tweeted that he was packing his bags for jail because "someone was going to have to pay for [those sanctions]".

News about Pavel's departure appeared long before the conflict you're talking about. So these two events are not connected.

News about Pavel's departure started appearing ever since the hostile takeover well over a year ago. His actual departure was today which makes it very much possible, if not likely, that it was connected to recent events which undoubtedly resulted in additional pressure against his ideologies.

Re: Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO

#25

Post by insuffi »

paulbaumgart wrote: post #21
insuffi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As proven time and time again, most popular does not mean "the best".(especially, considering how many people there are in the US compared to any EU nation. That'd certainly explain the "number of successful businesses".) Do you think those people starting companies would do any worse, if we placed them in, say, Denmark? EDIT:Or maybe Israel, which has the highest density of start ups worldwide? I'd be curious to see…

> Do you think those people starting companies would do any worse, if we placed them in, say, Denmark? Yes. Facebook, Apple, Google, Tesla, etc. would never have happened in Denmark. I'm really glad my parents did the annoying work of immigrating to the SF Bay Area from Germany when I was a kid. Otherwise I would have wasted years of my life doing it myself. Did you watch the Elon Musk interview posted here the other…

I don't see how you refuted my point. Have you tried anywhere else? Did Musk?

Re: Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO

#26

Post by dopamean »

aspidistra wrote: post #3

For UK readers and or football fans, the Alisher Usmanov mentioned, who now controls VKontakte, is the same Alisher Usmanov who owns a large stake in Arsenal FC. He also owns a stake in Odnoklassniki, another Russian social media site, which is "for classmates and old friends", a bit like Friends Reunited: http://odnoklassniki.ru/

As a long time Arsenal fan, fuck Usmanov.

Re: Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO

#27

Post by mtrimpe »

myth_drannon wrote: post #22
mtrimpe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't realise that Russia is a brutal petro-chemical dictatorship in economical decline which is clamping down hard on human rights, freedom of the press and radicalising its population through propaganda. I've been following the Crimea conflict very closely (which almost certainly is also what caused Pavel's departure) and the seriousness of the situation is heavily underestimated by the world. The Russi…

replace "Russia" with "US" and "petro-chemical" with "military-industrial complex" or "financial" and your whole comment still makes sense as well

Except that the US isn't in a steep decline. The US doesn't start invasions and pretends it's someone else's military. The US doesn't cancel leases for pro-Snowden news outlets. The US doesn't send protesters against election-fraud away for 5 years. The US doesn't introduce laws making it illegal to support gays in public. The US doesn't forcefully remove protesters against a potential war at first sight; even if they're just raising white protest flags.

The dynamics might be similar, if not universal, but the order of magnitude is truly different.

Re: Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO

#28

Post by paulbaumgart »

insuffi wrote: post #25
paulbaumgart wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think those people starting companies would do any worse, if we placed them in, say, Denmark? Yes. Facebook, Apple, Google, Tesla, etc. would never have happened in Denmark. I'm really glad my parents did the annoying work of immigrating to the SF Bay Area from Germany when I was a kid. Otherwise I would have wasted years of my life doing it myself. Did you watch the Elon Musk interview posted here the other…

I don't see how you refuted my point. Have you tried anywhere else? Did Musk?

This is obviously not a topic that can have a conclusive resolution. There are too many factors at play here. I believe the preponderance of evidence is in favor of starting a business in the USA, specifically in one of the major innovation hubs.

Re: Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO

#29

Post by mtrimpe »

insuffi wrote: post #12
mtrimpe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't realise that Russia is a brutal petro-chemical dictatorship in economical decline which is clamping down hard on human rights, freedom of the press and radicalising its population through propaganda. I've been following the Crimea conflict very closely (which almost certainly is also what caused Pavel's departure) and the seriousness of the situation is heavily underestimated by the world. The Russi…

The seriousness of the conflict depends on where you get your information, sadly. The situation geopolitically seems pretty simple, in broad strokes. Too bad there's unfounded scaremongering on both sides(or should I say 3 or 4 sides).

It more seems that the seriousness of the conflict depends on whether you see this as an isolated incident (which just happens to be the worst violation of territorial integrity in Europe since WWII) or as yet another indicator that the exact same social dynamics that led us to WWII in the first place are intensifying significantly.

I'm curious as to what your take on this is then though ...

Re: Pavel Durov quits as VKontakte CEO

#30

Post by insuffi »

paulbaumgart wrote: post #28
insuffi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how you refuted my point. Have you tried anywhere else? Did Musk?

This is obviously not a topic that can have a conclusive resolution. There are too many factors at play here. I believe the preponderance of evidence is in favor of starting a business in the USA, specifically in one of the major innovation hubs.

I agree with you; tech hubs are extremely important, which is where Europe seems to be lagging behind.

I just think the reason they ARE lagging behind is because US is considered the default country to go for starting a business, without second thought.

EDIT:I should probably clarify - I meant the US is viewed as the best, hypothetically, not necessarily implying action.

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