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Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

theatlantic.com

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Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#21

Post by hyperion2010 »

revelation wrote: post #4

Donepezil is a cholinesterase inhibitor, meaning it increases the amount of acetylcholine circulating around nerve endings. They just casually put that there, but I don't think most readers will be exactly familiar with what that means? It's basically raising the baselevel of what is one of the most common neurotransmitters. It's a carpet-bomb, not the targeted strike the article makes it out to be.

Sarin and VX are also irreversible cholinesterase inhibitors. And yes, any pharmacological manipulation should be viewed as a systematic and extremely nonspecific manipulation that will virtually always have unintended side effects.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#22

Post by sizzle »

patriciawright wrote: post #2

I'm always amazed how we don't look at our diets before resorting to drugs to treat conditions. What you eat has the largest effect on your brain chemistry.

ummmm, how do you explain learning/brain disorders stemming from childhood?

Neuroplasticity- how the brain is wired (neutral pathways), is a more plausible explanation for dysfunction in our lives. fMRI scans can confirm where activity is taking place in the neurotypical brain as opposed to those who suffer from disorders. What you eat is not going to magically repair the activity in these parts of the brain.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#23

Post by aaren »

roywiggins wrote: post #18
b6 wrote: post #11

> children younger than about 7 can pick up new skills, like language and music, much faster than adults can. I don't think this is true. I think a determined adult learns faster.

Language is completely different for kids. They don't so much learn language as acquire* it- it's not, generally, effortful. They just do it. * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_acquisition Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period_hypothesis

Wikipedia distinguishes between first and second language acquisition (FLA, SLA). FLA is done by children. SLA is done by children and adults.

The critical period hypothesis is that SLA is age dependent and can only be done properly as a child. However "The critical period hypothesis is the subject of a long-standing debate in linguistics and language acquisition over the extent to which the ability to acquire language is biologically linked to age."

I am not familiar with the research in this field, but I don't think it is clear cut that SLA is age dependent. FLA does appear to be though.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#24

Post by catshirt »

sizzle wrote: post #17
catshirt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm having a hard time sourcing either side of the argument, but kids learn a ton of shit. an adult learning a language has the benefit of both abstract and pragmatic knowledge of language, having spoken at least one for some time. they don't need to spend time learning, for example, how to move their tongue to make different noises. an adult learning a language also has the benefit of being able to read, or listen,…

I remember learning about a study in a neuroscience class regarding language and how, before the critical period in a child's mind, they could learn many languages because their brain had not settled on any one particular language. The "shape" of words (word length, voxels, parts of speech etc) effectively became hard coded in their minds after the critical period ended so they could easily recognize that language, b…

this sibling comment seems to be a good start: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7491549

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#25

Post by auctiontheory »

tomstokes wrote: post #13

Before anyone considers experimenting with Donepezil or other acetylcholinesterase inhibitors in hopes of enhancing their learning, it should be noted that there are plenty of unknowns and a few serious concerns around altering the cholinesterase levels of otherwise healthy adults. Briefly: Acetylcholinesterase terminates acetylcholine neurotransmission events by deactivating the acetylcholine, allowing it to be reus…

Don't give up - there is help. Reach out to your local chapter of Sesquipedalians Anonymous.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#26

Post by sizzle »

patriciawright wrote: post #7
jimmar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For amblyopia (lazy eye) mentioned in the article, diet doesn't do anything. Diet doesn't do much for neurodegenerative disorders, either. Today, when you get alzheimer's, it only gets worse. You can't eat a lot of blueberries and suddenly regain brain function. I thought the article was good. It didn't overhype any expectations of the drugs being tested. The research appears to be proceeding cautiously, but optimist…

It's not about eating a lot of fruits to suddenly regain brain function. Take a look at the research on how the average diet of carbs and process foods affects our body. A ketogenic diet has shown to increase brain function in a recent study. I'll try to find it and post here.

Yeah but once you start exhibiting the symptoms of a neurodegenerative disorder, it's far too late for you because the damage has been taking place for many years prior.

Understanding the diseased brain and using drugs to reverse/attack the root causes of neurodegenerative disorders will help further humanity no doubt. The ketogenic diet does seem to help from what I've read though, so that in conjunction with drugs could be big.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#27

Post by wyager »

sanxiyn wrote: post #14

In reinforcement learning, you are supposed to have large learning rate at the beginning and smaller and smaller learning rate as you go, eventually reaching zero. It would make sense for brain to use similar strategy. In unusual cases temporarily tweaking learning rate can be profitable, and it could apply to brain too.

>large learning rate at the beginning and smaller and smaller learning rate as you go, eventually reaching zero. It would make sense for brain to use similar strategy.

Maybe if we were still cavemen living in a technologically stagnant world.

The world is changing extremely fast. Humanity needs neuroplasticity boosters to keep up.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#28

Post by aaren »

[deleted] wrote: post #20
aaren wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, children have little else to do but absorb new information and they take a good number of years doing it. Adults have a load of responsibilities that they have to occupy their minds with. Compared to the carefree oblivion of childhood I think it is remarkable that adults can learn anything new at all. There does seem to be a lack of research that attempts to correct for this, or at least I can't fi…

[deleted]

My counter hypothesis is that children can't possibly conceive the amount of information an adult has to keep track of day to day.

What if we distinguish first language acquisition as a special process? If you don't acquire a language in the first place then you have no framework for formal learning. A better comparison might be second language acquisition in children and adults (see my post about FLA/SLA above).

Maybe we could look at acquisition of a physical skill as a fair comparison?

I think there is a distinction between infants and children. Neither have anything to do but learn, eat and sleep, but children have gone through the unimaginable process of connecting their senses to the world.

I don't really have much more to add, these are just my uninformed guesses.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#30

Post by kranner »

patriciawright wrote: post #8
mck- wrote: post #3

Limitless. Go watch it if you haven't

Limitless was based on Modafinil (a real-life nootropic you buy). You can read more about it here: http://www.brightjourney.com/q/physical-hacks-diet-nootropic...

I asked Alan Glynn (the author of The Dark Fields / Limitless) two days ago on twitter if he had based it on Modafinil. His reply (in a public tweet):

"Thanks - no, all made up, wrote it nearly 15 yrs ago, before I'd heard of modafinil, certainly before the nootropic boom."

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