Ooops this universally installed and standardized language is universally installed and standardized, how did that happen?
US tech giants knew of NSA data collection, agency's top lawyer insists
21–30 of 44 posts
Re: US tech giants knew of NSA data collection, agency's top lawyer insists
#22Throwing the tech companies under the bus...
Well, they're all playing in traffic together.
It's like their mothers never told them to look both ways before crossing the street, or to not play in traffic, for that matter. Or maybe their mothers hated them and told them to go play in traffic and that's why they hate the world. There are so many ways this allegory works. Ultimately, they're all going to get paved over by a road crew, if not hit by a very large bus. (cough, ahem, HD video, excuse me my digestion hasn't been right lately).
Re: US tech giants knew of NSA data collection, agency's top lawyer insists
#23Tl;dr: They ALL knew. They were ordered to comply. The denials are lies.
No, it appears this is only talking about the FISA court orders >> “All 702 collection is pursuant to court directives, so they have to know,” De reiterated to the Guardian. So, yes, companies knew they were being served with FISA warrants (that they complied with) but AFAICT they were unaware that the NSA was tapping their data lines like the example where they tapped data lines between Google's (and others) data ce…
It would be nice if these were illustrated. It's hard to keep track if who said what in context to particular directives/warrants etc.
Re: US tech giants knew of NSA data collection, agency's top lawyer insists
#24[deleted]
Re: US tech giants knew of NSA data collection, agency's top lawyer insists
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Correct. Companies are not monolithic. How many people do you need to know about it, in order to hide something from the monitoring systems and management alike? 10? 2?
The lawyer quoted in the article appears to contradict this: “Collection under this program was a compulsory legal process, that any recipient company would receive.” That's not a black bag job.
Joe who used to work at Ft. Meade – totally stand-up patriot! – is a senior employee in the company's operations department. He is served the compulsory process, and it is implied that under the process, he should not tell anyone else at the company, including superiors and company counsel. In fact, the senior executives may have even tacitly employed Joe for this role for this very purpose: he's been pre-vetted by the security state.
That's not quite a 'black bag' job. Nor is it completely legitimate. It's something in-between, which most of the time lets everyone work under convenient fictions, getting on with the rest of their jobs.
Re: US tech giants knew of NSA data collection, agency's top lawyer insists
#26First, even if the companies did know, there was probably a tacit agreement with the NSA that the NSA would always allow them plausible deniability. "Not only are you doing your country a great (and legally-required) service, but everyone involved will go to their graves with the details. Have you heard about how [competitors/famous-companies X, Y, Z] have fully cooperated for decades? You haven't? Exactly." The NSA…
Internal corporate collaborators unknown to the executives speaks to a failure of corporate security/infosec. I'd imagine current CEOs are increasing their organizations security measures to protect not only against corporate espionage but also state players. If you are CEO and you are forced to comply that is bad, but not nearly so bad as complying without knowing it is happening. Not knowing doesn't allow you to le…
How many CEOs view their interests as separate and opposed to their home-country security services? That's who protects them from terrorism, sabotage, blackmail, and kidnapping! A corporate infosec policy that keeps out everyone except a few quasi-official security-state moles may be exactly what they want. Earn brownie points, avoid paper trails, "everyone" wins.
Probably, helping the security-state even makes keeping other security threats out, easier: if you play ball, they want their secret, exclusive access to be unique. They fortify the holes behind them, and can use their many, many vantage points to warn you about other emerging threats. Otherwise, you're on your own.
Do you want to be friends with the best-funded, legally-advantaged infosphere apex predator, or enemies?
Re: US tech giants knew of NSA data collection, agency's top lawyer insists
#27No one denied complying with 702 orders. The main contention about PRISM isn't that the entities receiving data requests knew that they were receiving these requests, the main contention was/is about the "direct access" allegations which is what these companies actually denied, that and knowing the government codename for the program. Bad reporting.
The second paragraph of the article claims that companies knew about "upstream" collection as well. This is, from my understanding, the main point, as the Google engineer Brandon Downey issued the very harsh statement, and I quote, "fuck these guys", when the infamous smiley-face slide leaked. EDIT: Apparently the "upstream" collection does not refer to the third capture method in question, which exploited the fact t…
I am assuming that this
> After the hearing, De said that the same knowledge, and associated legal processes, also apply when the NSA harvests communications data not from companies directly but in transit across the internet, under Section 702 authority.
doesn't imply that Facebook is informed when an "upstream collection" request is made to a telco in relation to a Facebook user, but rather that the telco is. It's pretty unclear though.
Re: US tech giants knew of NSA data collection, agency's top lawyer insists
#28I suppose if at some point Larry Page himself confirms that they did know all about NSA surveillance and actively participated, people will still find ways to acquit the beloved company :) I'm not sure if it's the force of the "no evil" brand or maybe inherent dislike of the government, but user loyalty in PRISM companies is quite remarkable.
Re: US tech giants knew of NSA data collection, agency's top lawyer insists
#29Of course they did (do). Just like telcos. What is amazing is the carelessness that the government shows w.r.t. protecting the interests of American tech firms. NSA could hardly have done more to destroy worldwide trust and credibility in our tech industry.
I suppose the grass is greener on the other side. As a Canadian I trust the US tech industry. Everything that has been exposed in the US has been happening here too, and then some. The options are: spend lots of money to be spied on here; spend much less money to be spied on in the US.
Re: US tech giants knew of NSA data collection, agency's top lawyer insists
#30Of course they did (do). Just like telcos. What is amazing is the carelessness that the government shows w.r.t. protecting the interests of American tech firms. NSA could hardly have done more to destroy worldwide trust and credibility in our tech industry.
I suppose the grass is greener on the other side. As a Canadian I trust the US tech industry. Everything that has been exposed in the US has been happening here too, and then some. The options are: spend lots of money to be spied on here; spend much less money to be spied on in the US.
Couldn't agree more.