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Apple security rules leave inherited iPad useless

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Apple security rules leave inherited iPad useless

#21

Post by Silhouette »

bananas wrote: post #3
Silhouette wrote: post #2

This would be disgraceful at the best of times, and it's just adding insult to injury in this case. It seems not only software but even perfectly usable hardware can now be crippled by some high and might organisation's "security" measures. Roll on changes in the law to compel unlocking mechanisms.

Actually this is exactly what I want to happen to any devices that I own. Depending on the executor of the will of course, there is a lot to gain from possession of a device/account. People need to make separate arrangements like password handover etc and sort their affairs out properly. This should be promoted here, not the fact that Apple haven't handed the details over yet. If I were Apple, I'd deny the request to…

People need to make separate arrangements like password handover etc and sort their affairs out properly.

And how will that help if someone dies suddenly?

I'm guessing you've never dealt with, or watched a friend or family member deal with, probate in that situation. It typically means months of stressful and often heart-wrenching work that has to be done on top of everything else in your life. There are rules and procedures for dealing with all kinds of unknowns, many of which no-one saw coming and that's why they're unknown. One of the few things you can usually rely on is that if there are explicit wishes properly documented in a will, the law will tend to side with whatever that says. How come Apple can't rely on the same thing?

This should be promoted here, not the fact that Apple haven't handed the details over yet.

So everyone now has to maintain a legally registered compendium of every password change they ever make, in case a bus hits them tomorrow? Or someone who knows they have only a little time left, for whom every moment is precious, should waste that time filing formal notifications of their electronic accounts with companies who apparently have too much control over modern devices?

Apple have been shown copies of the death certificate, will, and solicitor's letter. That is sufficient to transfer millions of pounds in estate assets in the eyes of the law. How come it's not sufficient for the mighty Apple to show a bit common sense?

Apple deserve every bit of horrible PR that's coming to them over this.

Re: Apple security rules leave inherited iPad useless

#23

Post by Silhouette »

poolpool wrote: post #7

Apple literally cannot win in the media and the current security narrative. If they could/would remotely unlock or reset passwords people would freak out about lax security you could get around by purely faking a written and signed letter. This sucks but is all this heartbreak and fighting with a company worth a 500 dollar toy? This whole thing is ridiculous.

This sucks but is all this heartbreak and fighting with a company worth a 500 dollar toy?

You do understand that some people have to work full time for several months to save enough to buy that kind of "toy", right? Maybe you're lucky enough to be more wealthy than that, but many aren't. Not that the amount of money involved is even slightly the point here anyway.

Re: Apple security rules leave inherited iPad useless

#24

Post by Hansi »

When my friend who is only 29 now developed a blood clot two years ago (thankfully surgery went fine but the chances weren't good according to the doctor going in); I set up a password protected encrypted disc image with all my login details (1Password), monitary asset information (iBank), contact details (Address book + txt file), instructions for dealing with employer, insurance stuff (life, home, accident), etc that's on a USB stick in my flat and synced to my parents computer via SFTP every month or so.

That way they can get any information they need easily if something were to happen to me by unlocking the disk image with the password they have.

Obviously out of the scope for most people (including article's subject) to set up but a good idea for those of us who are technologically inclined IMO (others may disagree, if so I'd love to hear why).

Re: Apple security rules leave inherited iPad useless

#25

Post by Silhouette »

nb1981 wrote: post #16
Silhouette wrote: post #2

This would be disgraceful at the best of times, and it's just adding insult to injury in this case. It seems not only software but even perfectly usable hardware can now be crippled by some high and might organisation's "security" measures. Roll on changes in the law to compel unlocking mechanisms.

do you work for the NSA? (Silhouette)

No. I work for companies that have lost silly amounts of time because big businesses screwed up management of DRM'd systems and locked us out of things we had paid a lot of money to purchase when they shouldn't have. And since I also happen to own those companies, that behaviour directly cost me a lot of my own money. I understand why they do these things, but given their staggering resources, paid for by those high prices, I have absolutely no sympathy if they screw things up and the people who were harmed as a result call them out for it.

Re: Apple security rules leave inherited iPad useless

#26

Post by Silhouette »

vinceguidry wrote: post #12

It's hard for me to want to blame Apple for this. The fact of the matter is, they should not have lost those security tokens. I'm getting pretty sick of the externalities of people's unwillingness to manage their information. You lose your password, you lose your device, unless you know how to hack it or can pay someone to do it. If it costs you more to recover your device than it's worth, tough shit. That password i…

You lose your password, you lose your device, unless you know how to hack it or can pay someone to do it. If it costs you more to recover your device than it's worth, tough shit.

That's fair enough, as long as you also prominently advertise the fact that ever forgetting that password will render your device worthless, so that everyone is fully aware of the limitation before they choose whether or not to make a purchase.

Re: Apple security rules leave inherited iPad useless

#28

Post by vinceguidry »

josteink wrote: post #18
vinceguidry wrote: post #12

It's hard for me to want to blame Apple for this. The fact of the matter is, they should not have lost those security tokens. I'm getting pretty sick of the externalities of people's unwillingness to manage their information. You lose your password, you lose your device, unless you know how to hack it or can pay someone to do it. If it costs you more to recover your device than it's worth, tough shit. That password i…

What a great attitude towards user friendliness! Let's apply it to email, online banking and forum accounts while we're at it, shall we?

With these things, there is someone you can talk to that controls the service. If you lose access to your online bank account, then you can call up your bank and have them manually reset it. Since they have alternate trust channels for alternate ways of doing things, (you can check your balance and make transfers by phone in most cases) you can just reuse them to regain access. (God help you if you lose your Gmail account, though)

Apple's devices are fully in your control after you buy them. If you lose access to a perfectly working device then it's your own damn fault. It's your own damn fault in the other cases too, it's just that the nature of the services provided mean you can go also go through a person.

But if you buy a safe, lock it, and subsequently lose all normal access to it, don't bitch to me when you have to ruin it to get back in. It's just doing its job, and you failed to do yours. Suck it up, buy a new safe, and be more careful next time.

Re: Apple security rules leave inherited iPad useless

#29

Post by jws »

It sounds reasonable to me. They have provided evidence that the woman has died, and that she left an iPad. Apple is asking for a legal declaration that it is this iPad and this iTunes account.

"We've provided the death certificate, will and solicitor's letter but it wasn't enough. They've now asked for a court order to prove that mum was the owner of the iPad and the iTunes account.

The survivors are balking at the £200/hr for the solicitor to make that happen.

So it appears there is a path for an executor to gain control of an iTunes account and iOS devices, but it requires a legal verification from the courts. Anything less would be open to abuse.

Note to self: make a mechanism for my survivors to unlock my keychain, because that is really going to suck for them in my case.

Re: Apple security rules leave inherited iPad useless

#30

Post by bananas »

Silhouette wrote: post #21
bananas wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually this is exactly what I want to happen to any devices that I own. Depending on the executor of the will of course, there is a lot to gain from possession of a device/account. People need to make separate arrangements like password handover etc and sort their affairs out properly. This should be promoted here, not the fact that Apple haven't handed the details over yet. If I were Apple, I'd deny the request to…

People need to make separate arrangements like password handover etc and sort their affairs out properly. And how will that help if someone dies suddenly? I'm guessing you've never dealt with, or watched a friend or family member deal with, probate in that situation. It typically means months of stressful and often heart-wrenching work that has to be done on top of everything else in your life. There are rules and pr…

> And how will that help if someone dies suddenly?

I've sorted my affairs out. I have a keypassX database and master passwords listed my will.

I take it you read the rest of my last post -- I have dealt with this.

Most people amble through life and never ask the question "what if?". If they do ask it, they light another cigarette rather than put mitigation in place. That is naivety and people need to snap out of it, pretty damn quick. The world is a big and complicated place and if you don't want to leave a pile of pain and suffering for people if you do decide to walk in front of a train or something then you need to sort it out.

No excuses.

Sorry.

As for Apple, they have no obligation to do anything. The device is an asset (tangible) and the will probably states about transferring them and the contract and terms are with the person who signed it. In this circumstance, they will cause themselves problems if they act and say yes here you go or no chance. I'm sure the Apple Account which is the issue wasn't even mentioned in the will or signatory's asset declaration.

Doomed either way.

Apple chose the right answer: mu (i.e. no answer).

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