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The Man Who Built Catan

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Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#21

Post by pavel_lishin »

chimeracoder wrote: post #3

Catan was my first German-style board game[0]. I've since "graduated" on to more complicated games, so I rarely play it anymore, but I find that it's an effective "gateway" German-style board game. Almost all of my friends who have played it love it, and have gone on to try (and enjoy) other German-style games. Catan is nice because it's sufficiently more complex (and well-designed) than Monopoly so as to be interest…

I also like the Uncommons, but I recommend checking their schedule if you'd like to visit - they often host events that end up making the place quite crowded (e.g., MtG tournaments)

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#22

Post by MichaelGG »

habosa wrote: post #17
mlader wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should trade into the bank! 4 for 1 =)

Yeah I was exaggerating, but people do 5 cards for one if they really need it (just mixed element).

Is trading actually a good thing? I see people play and they seem open to trading for trades sake. Unless your opponents are making pointless trades to confuse, doesn't it just help their position?

Catan's alright, but it's too random to be really enjoyable. The strategy seems outweighed by getting lucky on rolls or draws.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#23

Post by idProQuo »

mdmarra wrote: post #12
graylights wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that Catan is much less complex monopoly. Just that most people learn monopoly at a very young age so they never notice the complexity. Monopoly's rules are 6 pages of pure text. Catan's rules are 4 pages with some illustration. I don't understand at all why monopoly is the universal board game that every kid learns. It's a horrible game that drags on for hours. Even though I don't particular care for Catan…

Monopoly only drags on for hours if you play by silly house rules like $400 for landing on Go, money for landing on Free Parking, or not requiring an auction when passing on purchasing a property. All of these common house rules artificially extend the game by either injecting cash into the game or slowing the acquisition of property. A vanilla game of 4 player monopoly should take no more than an hour.

Speaking as someone who was bad at monopoly as a kid, those cash injections helped make the game feel more "fair". The vanilla rules make it really hard for a newbie to win against someone who actually knows how to play strategically.

Now, that doesn't justify turning the game into a 4 hour slog, but it may help to explain why so many people use these "wimp rules".

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#24

Post by habosa »

MichaelGG wrote: post #22
habosa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was exaggerating, but people do 5 cards for one if they really need it (just mixed element).

Is trading actually a good thing? I see people play and they seem open to trading for trades sake. Unless your opponents are making pointless trades to confuse, doesn't it just help their position? Catan's alright, but it's too random to be really enjoyable. The strategy seems outweighed by getting lucky on rolls or draws.

Trading is definitely a good thing. I find that when placing settlements at the beginning it's crazy to try to get exposure to all 5 elements, but if you get really strong exposure to 3 of them you can trade for what you lack. Then you don't have to spread yourself too thin. Plus you know what people will do with what you trade them ... don't give up wood if you don't want people building roads.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#25

Post by afterburner »

mdmarra wrote: post #12
graylights wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that Catan is much less complex monopoly. Just that most people learn monopoly at a very young age so they never notice the complexity. Monopoly's rules are 6 pages of pure text. Catan's rules are 4 pages with some illustration. I don't understand at all why monopoly is the universal board game that every kid learns. It's a horrible game that drags on for hours. Even though I don't particular care for Catan…

Monopoly only drags on for hours if you play by silly house rules like $400 for landing on Go, money for landing on Free Parking, or not requiring an auction when passing on purchasing a property. All of these common house rules artificially extend the game by either injecting cash into the game or slowing the acquisition of property. A vanilla game of 4 player monopoly should take no more than an hour.

"or not requiring an auction when passing on purchasing a property"

This is the key one.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#26

Post by adamconroy »

habosa wrote: post #8

"The company originally sourced all of the materials for the game from Europe, but, when demand began to take off, the manufacturers didn’t have enough wood to keep up." Couldn't they have traded some grain or ore?

I chuckled when I read that line. I assume they put in as a little joke.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#27

Post by adamconroy »

graylights wrote: post #9
chimeracoder wrote: post #3

Catan was my first German-style board game[0]. I've since "graduated" on to more complicated games, so I rarely play it anymore, but I find that it's an effective "gateway" German-style board game. Almost all of my friends who have played it love it, and have gone on to try (and enjoy) other German-style games. Catan is nice because it's sufficiently more complex (and well-designed) than Monopoly so as to be interest…

I'd argue that Catan is much less complex monopoly. Just that most people learn monopoly at a very young age so they never notice the complexity. Monopoly's rules are 6 pages of pure text. Catan's rules are 4 pages with some illustration. I don't understand at all why monopoly is the universal board game that every kid learns. It's a horrible game that drags on for hours. Even though I don't particular care for Catan…

I can attest that it does drag on. There is an unfinished game from the weekend sitting on my desk, and we were playing with the accelerated rules.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#28

Post by mdmarra »

idProQuo wrote: post #23
mdmarra wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly only drags on for hours if you play by silly house rules like $400 for landing on Go, money for landing on Free Parking, or not requiring an auction when passing on purchasing a property. All of these common house rules artificially extend the game by either injecting cash into the game or slowing the acquisition of property. A vanilla game of 4 player monopoly should take no more than an hour.

Speaking as someone who was bad at monopoly as a kid, those cash injections helped make the game feel more "fair". The vanilla rules make it really hard for a newbie to win against someone who actually knows how to play strategically. Now, that doesn't justify turning the game into a 4 hour slog, but it may help to explain why so many people use these "wimp rules".

There are definite "winning" strategies - like acquiring a monopoly on "jail row" and mortgaging all other properties to build it up as soon as possible. But does altering a game so that a child doesn't have to see the optimal moves from someone else do anything positive for anyone playing the game?

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#29

Post by spiritplumber »

idProQuo wrote: post #23
mdmarra wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly only drags on for hours if you play by silly house rules like $400 for landing on Go, money for landing on Free Parking, or not requiring an auction when passing on purchasing a property. All of these common house rules artificially extend the game by either injecting cash into the game or slowing the acquisition of property. A vanilla game of 4 player monopoly should take no more than an hour.

Speaking as someone who was bad at monopoly as a kid, those cash injections helped make the game feel more "fair". The vanilla rules make it really hard for a newbie to win against someone who actually knows how to play strategically. Now, that doesn't justify turning the game into a 4 hour slog, but it may help to explain why so many people use these "wimp rules".

You've just explained European vs American style capitalism.
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