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Twitter Bootstrap Expo

expo.getbootstrap.com

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Re: Twitter Bootstrap Expo

#21

Post by jamhan »

sgdesign wrote: post #2

Serious question: what do these sites get from using Bootstrap? I can't see any of Bootstrap's UI elements in use, so is it the grid? If so, I think something like Susy ( http://susy.oddbird.net ) is far superior. It's more powerful, and also won't pollute your markup with classes like "col-md-6".

Ease of getting started is one reason.

Bootstrap:

  1. ">
  2. Use it
Susy:

  1. Install Ruby
  2. Install Compass
  3. Install Sass
  4. Install Susy
  5. Use it.

Re: Twitter Bootstrap Expo

#22

Post by hiphopyo »

hiphopyo wrote: post #11
sgdesign wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you think CSS grids are, but you should probably read up a little more on them…

I take it they're preconfigured divs that clutter up your code and that are trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist given the basic nature of CSS. If you absolutely need a grid, what about http://hashgrid.com/ ?

Could you explain the downvote?

Re: Twitter Bootstrap Expo

#23

Post by chrissyb »

hiphopyo wrote: post #3
sgdesign wrote: post #2

Serious question: what do these sites get from using Bootstrap? I can't see any of Bootstrap's UI elements in use, so is it the grid? If so, I think something like Susy ( http://susy.oddbird.net ) is far superior. It's more powerful, and also won't pollute your markup with classes like "col-md-6".

I don't see why people need to use Bootstrap at all. What's wrong with starting from scratch? Sure, Bootstrap has a lot of best practices you can copy / paste, but so do tons of other boilerplate projects on GitHub. I also don't see why people need to use grids. Grids are meant for graphic design (ie. http://subtraction.com/pics/0703/grids_are_good.pdf ) and architecture, not CSS. What's wrong with margins, paddings…

>I also don't see why people need to use grids.

"Discipline is a set of self imposed rules, parameters within which we operate. It is a bag of tools that allows us to design in a consistent manner from beginning to end. Discipline is also an attitude that provides us with the capacity of controlling our creative work so that it has continuity of intent throughout rather than fragmentation. Design without discipline is anarchy, an exercise of irresponsibility."

Massimo Vignelli http://www.vignelli.com/canon.pdf

I think if we continue to use the term "Web Designer" then the use of grids is more than acceptable.

In postscript I will however admit that I am a complete html novice so perhaps your point is quite valid.

Re: Twitter Bootstrap Expo

#24

Post by hiphopyo »

chrissyb wrote: post #23
hiphopyo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why people need to use Bootstrap at all. What's wrong with starting from scratch? Sure, Bootstrap has a lot of best practices you can copy / paste, but so do tons of other boilerplate projects on GitHub. I also don't see why people need to use grids. Grids are meant for graphic design (ie. http://subtraction.com/pics/0703/grids_are_good.pdf ) and architecture, not CSS. What's wrong with margins, paddings…

>I also don't see why people need to use grids. "Discipline is a set of self imposed rules, parameters within which we operate. It is a bag of tools that allows us to design in a consistent manner from beginning to end. Discipline is also an attitude that provides us with the capacity of controlling our creative work so that it has continuity of intent throughout rather than fragmentation. Design without discipline i…

Indeed, as with my earlier link (http://subtraction.com/pics/0703/grids_are_good.pdf), I'm not arguing against grids as a design tool. I'm arguing against transferring them programatically to HTML and CSS when tools like http://hashgrid.com/ allows you to transfer them visually just fine.

People argue they need grids for their websites to be responsive, but that is not what grids are for. At least not according to Massimo Vignelli.

Re: Twitter Bootstrap Expo

#25

Post by Kudos »

hiphopyo wrote: post #22
hiphopyo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it they're preconfigured divs that clutter up your code and that are trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist given the basic nature of CSS. If you absolutely need a grid, what about http://hashgrid.com/ ?

Could you explain the downvote?

I didn't downvote, but your tone is all wrong. You sound like a know it all, while also not making a strong argument against grids.

Re: Twitter Bootstrap Expo

#26

Post by hiphopyo »

adwf wrote: post #19
hiphopyo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grids have been used in architecture for thousands of years. Sure, they might come in handy when drafting your webdesigns in Adobe or whatever, but not in the CSS. Just use your eyes and basic CSS. For true responsive websites, use media queries. As they say, "perfection is achieved, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away".

Bootstrap 3 is a responsive grid that uses media queries. I can trivially adjust the look of a site on desktop/tablet/mobile, all just by adding a few classes. When you add in the fact that they manage all the cross-browser/platform quirks for you, it's quite a winning proposition to use Bootstrap to start off a new site. You'll certainly end up overriding various colours, margins, etc. but that's the easiest part of…

My point is that you don't need Bootstrap to use media queries. Nor to manage quirks when there are way simpler solutions available on GitHub.

These quirks are becoming less and less over time as well, as new browsers and devices start to follow the same standards, and major players are dropping support for old browsers (ie. Google is no longer supporting old versions of IE).

Re: Twitter Bootstrap Expo

#27

Post by maouida »

sgdesign wrote: post #2

Serious question: what do these sites get from using Bootstrap? I can't see any of Bootstrap's UI elements in use, so is it the grid? If so, I think something like Susy ( http://susy.oddbird.net ) is far superior. It's more powerful, and also won't pollute your markup with classes like "col-md-6".

As a developer, I prefer to use BS for many reasons. - Familiar class names. I don't have to create and memorize new class names on every new project.

- Responsiveness.

- Cross browsers.

Re: Twitter Bootstrap Expo

#28

Post by ceejayoz »

hiphopyo wrote: post #3
sgdesign wrote: post #2

Serious question: what do these sites get from using Bootstrap? I can't see any of Bootstrap's UI elements in use, so is it the grid? If so, I think something like Susy ( http://susy.oddbird.net ) is far superior. It's more powerful, and also won't pollute your markup with classes like "col-md-6".

I don't see why people need to use Bootstrap at all. What's wrong with starting from scratch? Sure, Bootstrap has a lot of best practices you can copy / paste, but so do tons of other boilerplate projects on GitHub. I also don't see why people need to use grids. Grids are meant for graphic design (ie. http://subtraction.com/pics/0703/grids_are_good.pdf ) and architecture, not CSS. What's wrong with margins, paddings…

> What's wrong with starting from scratch?

As a developer who's not great at design, I've seen the clear difference between a site I start from scratch and a site I start from a Bootstrap foundation. It makes a world of difference for me.

Re: Twitter Bootstrap Expo

#29

Post by hiphopyo »

Kudos wrote: post #25
hiphopyo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain the downvote?

I didn't downvote, but your tone is all wrong. You sound like a know it all, while also not making a strong argument against grids.

I'll take that with a grain of salt. For stronger arguments, see my other posts.

Re: Twitter Bootstrap Expo

#30

Post by chrissyb »

hiphopyo wrote: post #24
chrissyb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I also don't see why people need to use grids. "Discipline is a set of self imposed rules, parameters within which we operate. It is a bag of tools that allows us to design in a consistent manner from beginning to end. Discipline is also an attitude that provides us with the capacity of controlling our creative work so that it has continuity of intent throughout rather than fragmentation. Design without discipline i…

Indeed, as with my earlier link ( http://subtraction.com/pics/0703/grids_are_good.pdf ), I'm not arguing against grids as a design tool. I'm arguing against transferring them programatically to HTML and CSS when tools like http://hashgrid.com/ allows you to transfer them visually just fine. People argue they need grids for their websites to be responsive, but that is not what grids are for. At least not according to…

Thanks for the link, it was a good read.

I understand where you are coming from now. Can you suggest a good article for reading up on "gridless" responsive design?

I've just been looking at http://thatcoolguy.github.io/gridless-boilerplate/

It would be good to learn more about this philosophy.

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