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The anonymity I know

chrishateswriting.com

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Re: The anonymity I know

#21
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do keep in mind that 4chan is not /b/. There's a _huge_ discrepancy between people's interpretation of what 4chan is like, and what it really is. This is probably why the community has been able to stay so strong over the years. On the off-chance you visit one of the more aggressive boards and someone tries to say mean things to you, you can always reply in a friendly, careless fashion and make them feel really bad a…

/b/ seems to be a "honey pot" for the more negative behaviors on 4chan. By providing that outlet, the rest of the site's communities are that much more civil as a result.

> There's a _huge_ discrepancy between people's interpretation of what 4chan is like, and what it really is.

> /b/ seems to be a "honey pot" for the more negative behaviors on 4chan.

Double bingo!

Re: The anonymity I know

#22
Slight OT: I'm interested on people's thought on anonymity on HN.

- Do you think we have better discussions because we don't have to use our real names?

- How would using real names affect the discussion here?

- Does the anonymity here go far enough? For example if someone manages to tie our real identity to our HN username their is no way of changing the HN username.

Re: The anonymity I know

#23

I may be completely ignorant here but how is Snapchat anonymous? I thought you shared content with your contact list... but maybe I'm missing something. Is it because Snapchat has no "profile" page a la Facebook?

It's not anonymous, but to the user it's ephemeral. You can make a pic, send it through snapchat, and be confident that regardless of the outcome (people loved it or hated it) they would never be able to see it again.

Traditional internet forums are anonymous and static. Snapchat flips that around.

Re: The anonymity I know

#24
>> "What I’ve observed is the opposite—that anonymity facilitates honest discourse, creates a level playing field for ideas to be heard, and enables creativity like none other."

One big counterpoint to this I can see is ask.fm. People are given total anonymity and they use it to berate and bully others (I believe it's also lead to several suicides). Anonymity can work great if the community is good. Here on HN I think it works pretty well. On ask.fm it clearly worked horribly but only because the community using it used it that way.

In the end I think it's all down to the people using the service and anonymity or true identity plays only a very small role.

Edit: and the downsides of anonymity can been seen below in '784927489234's comment.

Re: The anonymity I know

#25
These days, there are social justice warriors combing your twitter feed looking for a way to get you fired if you "offend" someone. Anonymity is vital for the diversity of ideas. I'm sure some people are slavering for a world without anonymity, where they can enforce ideological conformity. I prefer this way, thanks.

Re: The anonymity I know

#26

Slight OT: I'm interested on people's thought on anonymity on HN. - Do you think we have better discussions because we don't have to use our real names? - How would using real names affect the discussion here? - Does the anonymity here go far enough? For example if someone manages to tie our real identity to our HN username their is no way of changing the HN username.

You know how we see "former" politicians, or "former" chairs at agencies, or "former" judges speaking on the war on drugs, and so on? Why are they always "former"? Because they know that what they say could impact their career and they could lose their jobs, at a time they may not be ready to lose their jobs.

Now, imagine if everything they can say after they become "former" that position (so I'm not necessarily talking about leaking classified information here), could be said anonymously much earlier while they still have that job and know everything what's going on at the time.

Anonymity is powerful, and not just in oppressive countries where the usefulness of anonymity should be obvious, but also in countries where you may want to tell a "truth" about something, without fearing for your financial situation or your career.

Let's imagine Tim Cook had an opinion about what is going on between Palestine and Israel, and let's imagine it's a damn good one, since he's a pretty smart guy, and that opinion could even provide a big insight into the debate, and it would be very useful for the debate. I don't need to tell you that he wouldn't want to give that opinion under his real name on HN. That would create a media-firestorm, and could potentially get Apple, the company, in trouble, too, over his personal opinions.

I think these are just a few of the reasons why anonymity is important, and more should be explored. Anonymity is important for humanity, and it should never be killed or banned, whether by NSA or by companies like Google and Facebook.

Re: The anonymity I know

#27
Here's an idea: to reap the benefit of anonymity but also to discourage the trolling that comes with it how about an anonymous BBS where you pay (anonymously and in some currency that people don't particularly mind parting with -- e.g., Dogecoin) to post?

Re: The anonymity I know

#28
Having been "online" since the '80s, I respectfully disagree. Relative anonymity in "real" life leads to antisocial activity and rudeness since there's little chance of identity or recourse. Consider the behavior of automobile drivers.

Anonymity online can't fully be achieved except by a small few, but the positive benefits can be simulated for many by careful operators of BBS or internet forums.

Re: The anonymity I know

#29

>> "What I’ve observed is the opposite—that anonymity facilitates honest discourse, creates a level playing field for ideas to be heard, and enables creativity like none other." One big counterpoint to this I can see is ask.fm. People are given total anonymity and they use it to berate and bully others (I believe it's also lead to several suicides). Anonymity can work great if the community is good. Here on HN I thin…

I wouldn't really consider ask.fm as a total utilization of anonymity.

With reference to moot's point about the incontestable equality and a systemic reverence for ideas (instead of individuals) in an anonymous community, ask.fm isn't qualified as a service using anonymity. By placing those asked questions in a different social category (as the subject of focus) than those asking the questions (as those focusing on the subject), there is a major discrepancy between the identities of both types of participants.

Re: The anonymity I know

#30

>> "What I’ve observed is the opposite—that anonymity facilitates honest discourse, creates a level playing field for ideas to be heard, and enables creativity like none other." One big counterpoint to this I can see is ask.fm. People are given total anonymity and they use it to berate and bully others (I believe it's also lead to several suicides). Anonymity can work great if the community is good. Here on HN I thin…

If someone commits suicide because of some bullshit on a random website, then the suicide was probably going to happen anyway.

This is the same tired "think-of-the-children" argument about reversed song lyrics played backwards, Ozzy Osbourne, foul language, and on and on, that the PMRC lobbied against, and used as a point to provoke the parental advisory album labeling in the 80's.

The term "cyber bullying" (which is new and different) is used incorrectly as a catch-all sometimes, but really, it should be reserved for a different form of pervasive harassment that follows the victim across many different scopes of internet and telecommunications access, where ignoring activity originating from one source (a single website, the victim's e-mail inbox, or the victim's telephone number) does not provide escape from disparaging remarks.

This is not the same as one website providing anonymity or even pseudonymity.

Yeah, children are inexperienced, and thin-skinned. They don't understand the risks of providing their real information on the internet, and and don't behave with the sophistication of those that do. There's lots of things on the internet that are not for kids. LOTS.

All the more reason to inform the inexperienced to AVOID revealing their honest real-life identity, rather than encouraging rubes to engage in promiscuous full-disclosure so that advertisers and ad-driven businesses can make a buck off of "unique" impressions.

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