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Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

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Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

#21

Post by mhurron »

stdbrouw wrote: post #18
dangrossman wrote: post #3

Is this a SV thing? Anyone in other cities care to chime in? I've been to a few "camps" and "confs" and tech meetup groups in Philadelphia, and none of them were at bars nor catered with free beer. "We're meeting up at X bar after if anyone wants to come" is a common thing to hear or even see on a schedule, but the actual events are about the panels/speakers/networking... usually with ample time to socialize.

That's part of the problem though: socializing is a really big part of a lot of conferences, and if the people you want to meet are all in a bar, getting a drink, then it can be really hard to say "y'know, I'm just going to get me a sparkling water".

Sounds like a personal problem, because no, it's not hard to say that.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

#22

Post by oskarth »

There's a world of difference between being excluded because you are of a certain gender, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation and because you don't like a certain beverage.

Hey, I don't like the naive techno-optimist prevalent in many technology events, but that doesn't in any way make me excluded. It just means I might have a different attitude and hold a minority opinion compared to my peers, and that I find myself bored and wanting to leave listening to some Singularity Guru. Same thing goes with alcohol: if you don't like, don't drink. If you feel like the event is too immature, don't show up or organize your own events.

The reason there's so much alcohol (though I haven't really come across the binge drinking he's talking about) is because it acts as a social lubricant, which turns out to be useful for many people, plus it's a nice freebie for companies, just like pizzas (don't eat it if you don't like it).

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

#23

Post by Argorak »

sjtgraham wrote: post #14

I pretty much abstain from alcohol, and despite my abstemiousness never have I once taken umbrage that others like to drink when I happen to be around. It's quite sad that someone should get so worked up about something so trivial.

I think that depends on context a lot. If you've got room to roam a group of drunk people that keeps to itself is rarely a problem. I've been to conferences where the party was in a small, crowded and loud area and I just didn't feel good because I couldn't move away (although I do drink).

On my own conference, we take great care that beer is served in open areas and that everyone can choose where he sits around. That works very well. It is an issue, it is one that can very easily be solved with a bit of open-mindedness a bit of care.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

#24

Post by VexXtreme »

dangrossman wrote: post #3

Is this a SV thing? Anyone in other cities care to chime in? I've been to a few "camps" and "confs" and tech meetup groups in Philadelphia, and none of them were at bars nor catered with free beer. "We're meeting up at X bar after if anyone wants to come" is a common thing to hear or even see on a schedule, but the actual events are about the panels/speakers/networking... usually with ample time to socialize.

I'm wondering the same. I never used to see this back when I lived in Europe and I don't see it here in Asia. It's probably fair to call it a SV thing.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

#25

Post by VexXtreme »

mhurron wrote: post #21
stdbrouw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's part of the problem though: socializing is a really big part of a lot of conferences, and if the people you want to meet are all in a bar, getting a drink, then it can be really hard to say "y'know, I'm just going to get me a sparkling water".

Sounds like a personal problem, because no, it's not hard to say that.

Indeed. I don't know what's so hard about drinking whatever you want to drink. If you're afraid of being "excluded" or "ostracized", then you'd do well to change who you hang out with.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

#26

Post by jiggy2011 »

rmk2 wrote: post #7
coldtea wrote: post #2

> It's the booze. You can't go anywhere, do anything or talk to anyone in the tech industry these days without a drink in your hand. If you try to fake it with a soda water you may as well give up trying to have insightful conversations after the first hour, because everyone else is wasted. If "everyone else is wasted" then why should they catter to the non-wasted demographic? Should they spoil everyone's fun to make…

If "everyone else is white" then why should they catter to the non-white demographic? Should they spoil everyone's fun to make a minority feel "included"? I understand that the STATED purpose of the event is not "being white". But an unstated and real consideration for people attending is the opportunity of being with one or several white friends. Not everything operates on the "stated" level. A better way would be t…

This isn't really the same thing, you can't please all of the people all of the time. You could be as try and offer as diverse activities as you like, say drinking/sports/chess tournament and there is likely to be someone who doesn't like any of those things.

A "whites only" restaurant is a different thing entirely to a restaurant where you're not thrilled about the menu.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

#27

Post by dictum »

stdbrouw wrote: post #18
dangrossman wrote: post #3

Is this a SV thing? Anyone in other cities care to chime in? I've been to a few "camps" and "confs" and tech meetup groups in Philadelphia, and none of them were at bars nor catered with free beer. "We're meeting up at X bar after if anyone wants to come" is a common thing to hear or even see on a schedule, but the actual events are about the panels/speakers/networking... usually with ample time to socialize.

That's part of the problem though: socializing is a really big part of a lot of conferences, and if the people you want to meet are all in a bar, getting a drink, then it can be really hard to say "y'know, I'm just going to get me a sparkling water".

A few weeks before the conference, create a FB group/discussion board/forum/mailing list and invite other people who'd like to abstain from alcohol at WhateverConf after parties. If you're going to WhateverConf you probably learned about it on the web. There's no reason not to use the web to assemble people who want to have alcohol-free fun at WhateverConf parties.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

#28

Post by stdbrouw »

mhurron wrote: post #21
stdbrouw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's part of the problem though: socializing is a really big part of a lot of conferences, and if the people you want to meet are all in a bar, getting a drink, then it can be really hard to say "y'know, I'm just going to get me a sparkling water".

Sounds like a personal problem, because no, it's not hard to say that.

Because peer pressure only exists in high school? And maybe it's not hard to say no to a single drink, but a lot of these events go past midnight, and the reason they "work" is because the next day when you pass each other in the hallway you can say "woah, bit of a hangover too?" and, silly as it sounds, bond over that. Good luck with that if you're only going to drink water, surrounded by people getting progressively drunk.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

#29

Post by rmk2 »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #26
rmk2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "everyone else is white" then why should they catter to the non-white demographic? Should they spoil everyone's fun to make a minority feel "included"? I understand that the STATED purpose of the event is not "being white". But an unstated and real consideration for people attending is the opportunity of being with one or several white friends. Not everything operates on the "stated" level. A better way would be t…

This isn't really the same thing, you can't please all of the people all of the time. You could be as try and offer as diverse activities as you like, say drinking/sports/chess tournament and there is likely to be someone who doesn't like any of those things. A "whites only" restaurant is a different thing entirely to a restaurant where you're not thrilled about the menu.

Sure, but it does matter how you present your argument, and that's not at all what the GP expressed, even if it might have been the intended meaning.

Re: Our Culture of Exclusion (or, why I'm not going to *conf)

#30

Post by donw »

untothebreach wrote: post #16
_delirium wrote: post #5

Interesting, I didn't realize this kind of thing happened. Most of the conferences I go to do have social events in bars or restaurants, sometimes with open bars, but they don't really have an "epic party, man!" kind of feel, or sloppy-drunk people. Culturally dependent, maybe? In much of Europe it's normal to socialize in a bar or restaurant at lunch or dinner or afterwards. But you'd be having some wine or beer and…

None of the conferences I've been to (in the U.S.) have been like he describes either. The post is from 2012, and if I remember correctly, especially then, there was a stereotype of the Ruby community for having more than it's share of "brogrammers," so maybe it's a community thing?

Have been to several Ruby conferences over the past year, and I've never seen this sort of thing during a conference.

The after-parties can get a little nuts, but those aren't handled by the organizers -- and it'd be more than a little asinine to tell a group of adults what they can and can't do in their spare time.

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