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Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

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Re: Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

#21

Post by chii »

tluyben2 wrote: post #19
NicoJuicy wrote: post #14

They did not really "denied" it. Their conclusion was: it just doesn't help. So we are taking away the possibility to block piratebay. The only result (according to the judge) is that less frequent downloaders look for alternatives. PS. Still glad that something like this just happens. Entertainment industry allowed firms like Netflix to rise because of their lack of vision, it's easy to blame the internet...

I think a lot of people would flock to legal alternatives if there were any. As long as there are not...

> flock to legal alternatives

legal and cheaper. The entrenched publishers of yesteryear's media still makes their products available at outrageous prices. I m glad netflix exists, but the media companies don't like the way technology is making distribution a commodity (where they extract their value from).

Re: Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

#22

Post by bowlofpetunias »

hrkristian wrote: post #10

I'm always intrigued by the lack of vision shown by organisations like BREIN. Blocking an IP address will not block an idea deeply embedded in the mindset of almost whole generations. It is, after all, "common knowledge" distribution has shifted, and pirates use this at every turn to justify their actions. >A copy is not theft, it is a copy, final. >The money I didn't spend on this movie was already earmarked for ano…

>All my friends are pirating, if I do not, I fall behind; there is no choice.

This is probably the strongest incentive for piracy in a country like the Netherlands: if you don't, you cannot join in the next day watercooler/schoolyard talk about the latest episode of show X, let alone your global virtual friends on various forums and communities.

Stopping people from consuming your product without scarcity must be the most insane business model ever. At least the communist failure to deliver was a side-effect, not a deliberate strategy.

However, let's not pretend the entrenched entertainment industry is the only one making this mistake. Tech start-ups often fail to realize that they are launching in a global market from day one.

Re: Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

#23

Post by tluyben2 »

chii wrote: post #21
tluyben2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people would flock to legal alternatives if there were any. As long as there are not...

> flock to legal alternatives legal and cheaper. The entrenched publishers of yesteryear's media still makes their products available at outrageous prices. I m glad netflix exists, but the media companies don't like the way technology is making distribution a commodity (where they extract their value from).

True, but I think most solutions which are legal in the US now are cheaper right? But it's quite simple (I know a lot of EU based people agree with it); as long as we cannot watch everything the US can watch at the moment the US can watch it (in English, not dubbed as is normal in DE, ES and probably other countries), people will aggressively pirate anything there is. No-one is going to wait for a sports program, movie or show for months after it airs in the US; that time has passed because on Facebook/Twitter/whatever everyone already is talking about that show/movie so you want to have instant gratification. And while everyone seems to do meditation these days, mustering patience for their favorite program is not one of the skills picked up.

It makes me angry when I travel to Spain for business or vacation and suddenly all my devices want to connect to the local stores (even though i'm Dutch, I pay in NL etc) and serve me crap in Spanish. Ever watched a dubbed UK/US thriller dubbed in Spanish? It's painful. Not too strange my UK colleagues living there all have proxies and there are thriving proxy and 'torrent setup box' businesses popping up all over the place.

Re: Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

#24

Post by higherpurpose »

chii wrote: post #20
tomp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for something as unimportant as money Fixed that for you. Music and movies are huge industries. BTW, I think they are loosing. Sure, some laws are being passed, but there are several generations alive today that consider piracy something normal and natural. It's all a matter of who is in charge; today's leaders are old, they don't consider piracy to be good and normal. When we (our generation) become old and get in…

except it seems to be that those who pirate (or consider piracy "normal") are not those who are going to be the elites that sit in parliment and make laws.

Haven't they linked piracy coming from Senate IP's? I think it's already happening in Congress. I also think you're underestimating how many people have pirated something at least once a year. Perhaps some are the kind of people who "always pay for their music and shows", since it's relatively cheap to begin with, but then go and pirate something like Adobe Photoshop.

Re: Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

#25

Post by neals »

The ISP just said on the news that the blockade that they had to apply since 2012 was actually very helpful for their case. Independent research (from TNO) showed no decline in torrent traffic and literally no effect of the blockade. The judge ruled the blockade "ineffective" and said "there are other means of copyright protection that make more sense".

Re: Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

#26

Post by tomp »

chii wrote: post #20
tomp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for something as unimportant as money Fixed that for you. Music and movies are huge industries. BTW, I think they are loosing. Sure, some laws are being passed, but there are several generations alive today that consider piracy something normal and natural. It's all a matter of who is in charge; today's leaders are old, they don't consider piracy to be good and normal. When we (our generation) become old and get in…

except it seems to be that those who pirate (or consider piracy "normal") are not those who are going to be the elites that sit in parliment and make laws.

I don't think it matters. As long as it's their siblings, parents and kids.

Re: Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

#27

Post by gnur »

skrebbel wrote: post #3
neals wrote: post #2

I think it's nice to live in a country where courts still exist that are not influenced by lobbyist and politics. Especially since BREIN has been ordered to repay the 326.000 in court fees.

And where internet providers owned by publicly traded corporations actually spend time and money fighting in court.

And where an internet provider not even included in the original case joined in only for the pursuing justice. XS4ALL has always claimed to be fighting for a free internet, with this case, they proved it to me.

Re: Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

#28

Post by alkonaut »

sentenza wrote: post #13

The fight against Bittorrent is more important than many realize. If "they" get away with destroying a technology (after all, it's only a protocol) for something as unimportant as copyright, we're truly fucked.

Surely "Bittorrrent" and "The pirate bay" are two separate things? In what way are they destroying bittorrent by attacking a single tracker/index? Isn't that analoguous to saying that trying to block or shut down any random web server serving something illegal is an attack on HTTP?

Re: Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

#29

Post by furyg3 »

troels wrote: post #11
furyg3 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is subjective, but as an American living in NL I've been fairly impressed with the Dutch government's (parliament, cities, unions, within parties, and courts) pragmatism. While there are cases of people maintaining hard-line statements, it seems to be less common than in normal US discourse.

Probably, the common law vs. Civil law has a lot to do with that.

I'm not sure. Civil codified law would make the judiciary less able to say "well, we tried X, it doesn't work, let's do something else". Anyway, I'm referring to something more broad than that.

While Dutch politics is still, well... politics, it seems like there is much more of a pragmatic approach. People expect the government to be effective. "Is policy X working or not?" is a common theme on the news, there are lots of statistics and reports, and politicians aren't trying to always spin their way out of them (though it certainly still happens, just less).

The whole society is a lot less concerned with black and white framings like grand economic theories, philosophical stances on law and order, or enforcing morality. They're more concerned with things working.

Re: Dutch Court of Appeals overturns Pirate Bay IP blockade

#30

Post by rplnt »

alkonaut wrote: post #28
sentenza wrote: post #13

The fight against Bittorrent is more important than many realize. If "they" get away with destroying a technology (after all, it's only a protocol) for something as unimportant as copyright, we're truly fucked.

Surely "Bittorrrent" and "The pirate bay" are two separate things? In what way are they destroying bittorrent by attacking a single tracker/index? Isn't that analoguous to saying that trying to block or shut down any random web server serving something illegal is an attack on HTTP?

Many ISPs block or limit torrent traffic, whatever the content. Mine has been doing this as far as I can remember. Have to use encrypted mode only.
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