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San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

theguardian.com

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Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#21

Post by [deleted] »

myko wrote: post #16
rtpg wrote: post #8

I'm extremely biased because I think any effort to "normalize" a 40-mile commute is poison to any environment, but I still don't get why, if everyone working at places like Google want to live in SF, why can't Google and co. just have offices in the city? I get that they wouldn't be able to build their own little disneyworlds that way, but instead of having Google build an entire ecosystem, they could just have offic…

> I've never worked in Google-like environment, but the whole closed-off , prison-like state of the campus seems very off-putting. Where is this prison like Google environment you're talking about?

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#23

Post by JoeAltmaier »

btian wrote: post #18
rtpg wrote: post #8

I'm extremely biased because I think any effort to "normalize" a 40-mile commute is poison to any environment, but I still don't get why, if everyone working at places like Google want to live in SF, why can't Google and co. just have offices in the city? I get that they wouldn't be able to build their own little disneyworlds that way, but instead of having Google build an entire ecosystem, they could just have offic…

Have you even visited Google's campus in Mountain View? There is no such thing as closed-off prison-like campus...

Texas has prisons out in the dusty plains, where prisoners are not bound nor fenced. Its the distance that makes it a prison.

So in this way a very remote campus IS a prison - you have no practical choice but to exist in that ecosystem.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#24

Post by wybo »

brudgers wrote: post #4
wybo wrote: post #2

Is this really happening? If it is, it brings up an interesting issue. Private public transport can out compete public transport. But then school buses already do this as well (compared to Europe). Though I did commute using SF buses, and I fully understand why one would not prefer ones kids to travel on them, and even why one would prefer company buses. As for rents, true, but can that not mostly be blamed on restri…

Let's get terms straight. Google is providing private mass transport. It's no more public transport than a charter liquor and gambling bus to Atlantic City. If it was public transport non-Googlers would ride for similar tariffs - ok that's probably inaccurate since poor riders would have their transport subsidized rather than Google's subsidy to those more affluent. Google's buses are solving more traffic problems in…

If you take the terms technically, it is private mass-transit. However, considering its function, it does cut directly into the market for public transport (that already is difficult in many US cities due to lower density and more car-use). The terms don't matter that much (except for politically perhaps).

As for solving traffic problems, they don't necessarily do this more so than public transport would, if Googlers took that.

I think the issue is more that MUNI might have to think about introducing first-class busses, or first-class sections, or something like that. Because many people don't like sharing a bus bench with smelly (homeless) people.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#25

Post by macspoofing »

rtpg wrote: post #8

I'm extremely biased because I think any effort to "normalize" a 40-mile commute is poison to any environment, but I still don't get why, if everyone working at places like Google want to live in SF, why can't Google and co. just have offices in the city? I get that they wouldn't be able to build their own little disneyworlds that way, but instead of having Google build an entire ecosystem, they could just have offic…

>If offices were built closer to the city, they could be smaller but I'm fairly convinced most people would consider it an upgrade to quality of life in general.

What is this 'solution' solving exactly? These protests are targeting tech workers and tech companies because tech workers want to live in San Fran and thereby drive up the price of housing. How would that change if Google had offices in San Fran?!

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#26

Post by tehwalrus »

The underlying problem, as with all property bubbles including the UK's, is planning restrictions.

In the past, people would move to areas of high employment from areas of low employment, and new housing was built for the economic migrants - this is how cities expanded. Now, restrictions on building new accommodation entrench expensive neighbourhoods, and mean economic migrants can't move nearer to the employment. This leads to both a property bubble market and lower employment overall in the nation.

This was all proposed/explained in this article a few months ago:

"Stay Put, Young Man", http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/november_december_...

(discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6563854 )

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#27

Post by macspoofing »

This is a quintessential embarrassment of riches. San Fran is powered by a real 21st century economy, which many other cities and countries are trying to recreate, and you still find something to complain about? What's the solution here? Not have tech companies that employ thousands of people (for upper-middle class wages) in the area?! Not have thousands of young educated people from all over the country and the world, want to move to, work and live in the city? Not have those employees wanting to live in the city, but instead go down the route of the 1950-1980s generations and settle suburbia, and leave the downtown-core decrepit and crime-ridden?

Even in this specific case, what's wrong with a corporation providing a mass transit option to their workers so they don't have to drive in and needlessly congest the roads and pollute the environment.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#28

Post by sokoloff »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #23
btian wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you even visited Google's campus in Mountain View? There is no such thing as closed-off prison-like campus...

Texas has prisons out in the dusty plains, where prisoners are not bound nor fenced. Its the distance that makes it a prison. So in this way a very remote campus IS a prison - you have no practical choice but to exist in that ecosystem.

I understand the analogy, but anyone outside tech that reads an argument like that, especially if they've ever BEEN to an actual prison (even as a visitor), will have an extremely hard time hearing anything else about your argument.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#29

Post by rtpg »

macspoofing wrote: post #25
rtpg wrote: post #8

I'm extremely biased because I think any effort to "normalize" a 40-mile commute is poison to any environment, but I still don't get why, if everyone working at places like Google want to live in SF, why can't Google and co. just have offices in the city? I get that they wouldn't be able to build their own little disneyworlds that way, but instead of having Google build an entire ecosystem, they could just have offic…

>If offices were built closer to the city, they could be smaller but I'm fairly convinced most people would consider it an upgrade to quality of life in general. What is this 'solution' solving exactly? These protests are targeting tech workers and tech companies because tech workers want to live in San Fran and thereby drive up the price of housing. How would that change if Google had offices in San Fran?!

Because then things like restaurants downtown would have more foot traffic during lunch time to help make sure local businesses don't shut down. Also, it could help make downtown "bigger", so even if the end result is the same (higher rent), there'd be more apartments available (instead of the suburbs that take a lot of space for not many families).

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#30

Post by wuster »

rtpg wrote: post #8

I'm extremely biased because I think any effort to "normalize" a 40-mile commute is poison to any environment, but I still don't get why, if everyone working at places like Google want to live in SF, why can't Google and co. just have offices in the city? I get that they wouldn't be able to build their own little disneyworlds that way, but instead of having Google build an entire ecosystem, they could just have offic…

Google is rumored to be looking for a campus in Mission Bay: https://www.google.com/search?q=google+mission+bay&oq=google...
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