Why Wikipedia's A/B testing is wrong
21–30 of 31 posts
Re: Why Wikipedia's A/B testing is wrong
#22Should Wikipedia use a contextual bandit system? Assuming the cost is equivalent, I say yes, for the following reasons:
- they have a shedload of traffic, and then some; and
- they have a limited time in which the campaign is running.
Let's address these in turn.
The regret bounds on contextual bandits are O(d sqrt(T)), where d is the dimensionality of the user profile you're using and T is time (see e.g. http://arxiv.org/abs/1209.3352). In contrast, the standard stochastic bandit has regret bounds of O(log(T)), which is much tighter. The summary is you need a lot more data to explore the bigger range of possibilities you've created. So I'm not sure contextual bandits are viable for smaller sites, but Wikipedia definitely has the traffic to make them work.
If your test is running for a limited time you can just delete the code when you're done. This has several advantages. People running A/B tests typically want to answer the question "what is best?" (To crush your enemies, obviously, but you can't usually say that) under the assumption that you'll then display the best variant forever. Contextual bandit algorithms don't answer this question; instead they minimise regret (equivalently, making you the most money) which makes more sense in the limited time setting. In fact there is no "best" with a contextual bandit -- the best variant depends on the user profile. This means you need to run the algorithm forever: good if you're collecting monthly subscriptions based on algorithm use, but bad if you're trying to manage a site with an exploding number of variants under test that you can never delete.
Ob plug: If you've found this post interesting you should consider signing up for the bandit course I'm running: http://noelwelsh.com/data/2013/08/16/free-bandit-course-draf... It will cover contextual bandits, and a whole heap of other interesting stuff.
Re: Why Wikipedia's A/B testing is wrong
#23Re: Why Wikipedia's A/B testing is wrong
#24I'm a big proponent of bandit algorithms (I'm a founder of Myna http://mynaweb.com/ , something of a competitor to Synference). I think there is a bit of nuance here that is missing in the discussion. Should Wikipedia use a contextual bandit system? Assuming the cost is equivalent, I say yes, for the following reasons: - they have a shedload of traffic, and then some; and - they have a limited time in which the campa…
Its definitely viable for smaller sites. Your argument there is about the bounds in a particular theoretical situation ("when the contexts are provided by an adaptive adversary.")
In a real world situation, your contexts are provided by the normal behaviour of your users, not an adversary. And, rather than the patterns being maximally hard to find, there'll instead be a lot of low-hanging-fruit - in terms of very obvious combinations of features that define different segments of users.
What's important is not the bound of the contextual bandit in a theoretical situation, but rather what performance it gives in 90% of business situations. In many situations, doing some personalisation to automatically find the most obvious user groups is a huge win.
And later, as the amount of data increases, the granularity of segmentation will effectively increase.
I agree with your general comments on bandits, and love what Myna is doing.
Re: Why Wikipedia's A/B testing is wrong
#25Wikipedua's AB testing is correct in as far as the problem and approach have been defined. This article suggests an improvement.
Wrong is when they're trying to test for something but due to some error they aren't actually testing for what they think they are.
Something can be accurate/correct but also improvable.
Re: Why Wikipedia's A/B testing is wrong
#26It's a minor point, and perhaps only a quibble, but the title is wrong. Wikipedua's AB testing is correct in as far as the problem and approach have been defined. This article suggests an improvement. Wrong is when they're trying to test for something but due to some error they aren't actually testing for what they think they are. Something can be accurate/correct but also improvable.
Re: Why Wikipedia's A/B testing is wrong
#27"Highly successful" and "All wrong"? There's an oxymoron if ever I've heard one.
(Synference cofounder here) It has successfully increased Wikipedia's donation revenue; however, some fundamental assumptions baked into the AB-testing approach are all wrong; this leaves a lot of money on the table. Instead of trying to find a single best version for everyone, people should realise that different segments of their users are going to have different preferences. Machine learning can find these in an a…
Re: Why Wikipedia's A/B testing is wrong
#28It's a minor point, and perhaps only a quibble, but the title is wrong. Wikipedua's AB testing is correct in as far as the problem and approach have been defined. This article suggests an improvement. Wrong is when they're trying to test for something but due to some error they aren't actually testing for what they think they are. Something can be accurate/correct but also improvable.
Re: Why Wikipedia's A/B testing is wrong
#29It's a minor point, and perhaps only a quibble, but the title is wrong. Wikipedua's AB testing is correct in as far as the problem and approach have been defined. This article suggests an improvement. Wrong is when they're trying to test for something but due to some error they aren't actually testing for what they think they are. Something can be accurate/correct but also improvable.
That's because this post exists as attempted marketing for Synference.
That's why we're working on this problem.
As I said elsewhere, we think AB-testing is a big improvement over nothing, but, like any powerful tool, it can blind people to its downsides.
Our blog title is designed to point out, succinctly, that we think the vanilla AB-testing framework is wrong for Wikipedia, as an easy-to-understand example. We believe that.
I notice that you volunteer for Wikipedia; I want to be clear, we're not trying to pick on Wikipedia here; I personally love Wikipedia. Its just a good well-known example of a successful AB-testing campaign, that we think could be way improved.
Re: Why Wikipedia's A/B testing is wrong
#30It's a minor point, and perhaps only a quibble, but the title is wrong. Wikipedua's AB testing is correct in as far as the problem and approach have been defined. This article suggests an improvement. Wrong is when they're trying to test for something but due to some error they aren't actually testing for what they think they are. Something can be accurate/correct but also improvable.
Regarding the title, I've updated the title to say 'conceptually wrong' - its more of a mouthful, but maybe what we mean is clearer? I hope our intent was clear in the intro paragraph anyway.