Live data from Hacker News

When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

blog.smartbear.com

21–30 of 49 posts

Re: When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

#21
I was in this situation four months ago. Frankly, I interviewed for the new job because it came with an attractive salary, but there had also been recent layoffs at my old job and I was interested in moving on anyway.

In the end, I'm glad I turned down the counteroffer and got out - I do think that my relationships would have been poisoned if I had stayed, and some core issues would not have been fixed. That said - I should not have taken the job I did. Chasing money was a rookie move, and I'm now more unhappy than I was at the previous company.

My advice is to think very realistically, perhaps pessimistically, about what life will be like at the new company. If you're not sure, ask questions. Don't take a new job because you want to get out - take a new job because you want out AND because the new job is freaking amazing. I'm now job hunting all over again, and it sucks.

Re: When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

#22

From my experience, an employer should only counter-offer if they're truly desparate. Just like this article says, the employee has already decided to leave once, it's not going to take alot to get them to decided to leave again. In addition, though, counter-offering one employee signals to others that they can route around the usual process for promotions and raises by coming in with an offer of their own. I worked…

Yeah, some companies have a policy of not making counteroffers at all, for this reason.

Basically, if an employee asks for a raise, that is when a good manager is going to decide whether to retain them or not. Because if you say no to an employee's request for a raise, but then make a counteroffer when they actually have another offer in hand, it is already too late. That is what bad managers do.

As a manager, the second you say "no" to a raise, you need to start to prepare yourself for the probable outcome that that employee will go and get a higher offer, and quit.

Most people don't ask for raises lightly, it is an act that requires a bit of courage. Chances are, if an employee works up the courage to ask you for a raise, it is because they really need it, and they are giving you a chance to retain them, before they start looking around.

Re: When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

#23
I previously worked at Microsoft. When I told my boss that I was leaving he asked a very polite question (I don't remember the exact wording) asking whether this was open for negotiation, and I told him no, that I had signed an offer and intended to take it. We moved on to discussing how I would close out my existing work items.

When a friend of mine (also at Microsoft) told his boss that he had a job offer from Google, but wasn't explicit about whether he had accepted it yet, they bent over backwards to try and persuade him to stay — offering, among other things, the promotion that he'd been passed over for in the previous two review cycles (so much for no promotion budget), pulling in upper management to spend time with him to persuade him to stay. All this just served to communicate to him how messed up his situation had been, if they can promote you now, why couldn't they before?

As long as you have been clear with your management about your expectations w.r.t. pay/promotion/work etc. then any counteroffer is simply an open display of organizational misanthropy.

w.r.t. Microsoft, one of the unspoken flaws in their review system is/was that by the time a review is delivered to an employee, it is too late to fix anything. If you think you deserved a promotion/bigger bonus/merit increase/whatever it has to wait until the next review cycle (a year) to be corrected (unless your manager is really prepared to fight hard for you and do things out of cycle—possible but hard)

Re: When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

#24
post #19

>For his part, Hurwitz himself resigned from a job at one point. He turned down a counteroffer from his boss. Six months later, he quit his new job. He got his old job back, in part because of his decision to turn down the counteroffer. “The boss told me it was because I hadn’t played games and had acted ethically,” Hurwitz said. Wot? His company gave him a counteroffer with the attitude that accepting their offer wo…

Well, he could have hemmed and hawed and led them on. Sounds like maybe he didn't do that; perhaps he just gave them a simple "no" and they respected that.

Re: When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

#25
post #19

>For his part, Hurwitz himself resigned from a job at one point. He turned down a counteroffer from his boss. Six months later, he quit his new job. He got his old job back, in part because of his decision to turn down the counteroffer. “The boss told me it was because I hadn’t played games and had acted ethically,” Hurwitz said. Wot? His company gave him a counteroffer with the attitude that accepting their offer wo…

Counteroffers are frequently made out of desperation more than anything else. "Holy shit, Bob is leaving?!? I didn't even know he wasn't happy. Quick, put together something that'll keep him around."

The problem with this is that the people making the counteroffer often feel they are doing so, effectively, at gunpoint: give me a bag of cash right now, or lose a key cog in your machine. "Nice company you've got there. Sure would be a shame if something were to... happen to it." So they are often made grudgingly, which leads to bad feelings. And if they are accepted the bad feelings go deeper, because now the people making the counteroffer feel like you put one over on them. So paradoxically, taking their counteroffer can hurt your relationships with those people pretty deeply, while rejecting it can keep them stable or even improve them -- when you walk away, they can interpret it as you choosing not to put one over on them.

None of this makes any logical sense, of course, but we're talking here about emotional decisionmaking, which has very little to do with logic.

Re: When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

#26
post #23

I previously worked at Microsoft. When I told my boss that I was leaving he asked a very polite question (I don't remember the exact wording) asking whether this was open for negotiation, and I told him no, that I had signed an offer and intended to take it. We moved on to discussing how I would close out my existing work items. When a friend of mine (also at Microsoft) told his boss that he had a job offer from Goog…

> As long as you have been clear with your management about your expectations w.r.t. pay/promotion/work etc. then any counteroffer is simply an open display of organizational misanthropy.

Ha! I like that.

Re: When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

#27
post #19

>For his part, Hurwitz himself resigned from a job at one point. He turned down a counteroffer from his boss. Six months later, he quit his new job. He got his old job back, in part because of his decision to turn down the counteroffer. “The boss told me it was because I hadn’t played games and had acted ethically,” Hurwitz said. Wot? His company gave him a counteroffer with the attitude that accepting their offer wo…

Perhaps he said he needed a change (not more money) because he was feeling burnt out or lost motivation on the project he was working on and perhaps in an attempt to keep him his employer tried throwing more money at him. Perhaps he turned down the more money offer because it really wasn't about money. Perhaps 6 months later he was rejuvenated and because his boss could see his leaving 6 months earlier wasn't just an attempt to "extort" more money but legitimately about burn out he hired him back on.

Perhaps it would make more sense if it said "because he hadn’t played games and hadn't acted unethically"

Re: When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

#28
post #19

>For his part, Hurwitz himself resigned from a job at one point. He turned down a counteroffer from his boss. Six months later, he quit his new job. He got his old job back, in part because of his decision to turn down the counteroffer. “The boss told me it was because I hadn’t played games and had acted ethically,” Hurwitz said. Wot? His company gave him a counteroffer with the attitude that accepting their offer wo…

No, that him turning it down was ethical according to Hurwitz, that he acted on his own terms.

There is no such thing as "unethical." There is always an ethic involved unless the person is acting completely without reason and randomly, such as when they are insane (and even then there is probably still some kind of reason in their mind). In this way, a person conducting themselves in an "unethical" way is likely on the verge of death or incarceration.

Re: When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

#29
The way companies work in real life, having an offer in hand gives your manager more motivation and leverage (to get more money for you) than he has to help an employee who is not seen as "in play." In other words, to improve your situation at a good but not perfect job, you sometimes need to get an external offer. Maybe that's not how it should be, but it's demonstrably how it is.

You have ongoing relationships with people, including your managers and co-workers - don't burn those. But your "relationship" with your employer [company], at least in Silicon Valley, is transactional.

Re: When You Get a Job Counteroffer: Should You Stay or Should You Go?

#30
post #9

I think that an important step is to pre-empt the counter-offer. When you even start to consider another opportunity, think about why you actually want to move to the new opportunity. Is it that you need more money? Is it that you want to work on a different kind of project? Is it that you need more stimulation? Then go to your employer, and without bringing up the other opportunity, see if they are willing to make t…

I don't think it's that easy. If you ask for what you want and are refused you are now in a worse position. This is why people don't do this. Even in situations where you won't be worse off people (esp. introverts) wouldn't normally ask for what they want.

The company has already lost when the employee is contemplating whether they should go look for a new job. Any outcome of this, whether the employee moves around in the company, leaves the company, takes a counter offer is all in the too little too late camp.

That's why a good manager and a good company needs to actively invest effort in making sure their employees are happy and productive. How does the saying go, people don't leave companies, they leave their bosses...

EDIT: It also depends on the company. In a large company like Microsoft you can make moves that are almost like moving to a different company and have advantages (seniority) over changing companies. My experience is those companies have a better chance of retaining employees because of that advantage as long as they make those moves reasonably easy.

Post reply on HN