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Federating Do-It-Yourself ISPs from around the world

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Re: Federating Do-It-Yourself ISPs from around the world

#21

Post by AlterSid »

Udo wrote: post #17
AlterSid wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Belgium, we are in the process of setting up an associative ISP, the road is long, but we have already started "formallly" to investigate technical solutions for vdsl lines, radio/wifi links; procurement of server, uplink, datacenter.. We have just passed a milestone which was to set up the legal entity supporting our diy isp. You are right to point out that there is still a lot of work to be done, but this is a s…

> but this is a step in the right direction imho. It absolutely is, yes. What you're doing is admirable. > The idea behind this federation at this point is more to advertise the status of the various projects Ah, alright then. My first association was there'd by an effort to extricate yourself from the all-pervading surveillance, censoring, and traffic-shaping planned or already taking place. Of course, setting up an…

I sure hope this happens at the federation level too and becomes intrinsically tied to it. But what I am sure of, is that these aspects are some of the main drivers for people I had the pleasure to meet irl, and who are behind these initiatives.

Re: Federating Do-It-Yourself ISPs from around the world

#22

Post by nknighthb »

xhrpost wrote: post #20
nknighthb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also read that ARIN won't give you IPv6 space unless you first have assigned v4 space. You misread an "or" as an "and". For end-users: https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv6_initial_assign.h... "Meet one of the following requirements" one of , not all of. For ISPs/LIRs: https://www.arin.net/resources/request/ipv6_initial_alloc.ht... Each criteria is followed by " or "

OK, I was referencing some older info: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/2339/arin-stupid-policies

If I interpret that post correctly (and I'm not sure I do, because it sure reads like it was written by someone who doesn't really know what they're doing and has an axe to grind), they submitted a request for both IPv4 space and IPv6 space at the same time, and ARIN wanted to go through the approval process for IPv4 first. This is understandable and not surprising.

At the end of the post it even says "Nothing stopping us from paying 1250 a year for our own IPv6 space though.".

This is an angry, confused individual upset about costs who decided to go rant semi-coherently on a forum full of people I wouldn't trust to administer a network anyway. It is not a reliable source of information.

Any notion that you require an IPv4 allocation to get an IPv6 allocation is wrong, was wrong in April 2012 when that post was written, and as far as I know, has always been wrong. You have never required an IPv4 assignment to get an IPv6 assignment, such a policy would be absurd and utterly counter-productive.

This is the ARIN policy document in place in April 2012: https://www.arin.net/policy/archive/nrpm_20120210.pdf

I can find no requirement that new IPv6 allocations require an IPv4 allocation. See sections 6.5.2.2 and 6.5.8.1, which correspond to the pages I linked to earlier.

Re: Federating Do-It-Yourself ISPs from around the world

#23

Post by _delirium »

mgbmtl wrote: post #12
dingaling wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> register with IANA to get an ipv4 and ipv6 block Actually one has to register as a Local Internet Registry with the local monopoly RIR, such as ARIN or RIPE. Only they can request blocks from IANA, which they then allocate to LIRs in exchange for non-trivial membership fees. Fees in the order of 3,000EUR to join and not much less on a recurring annual basis: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/become-a-…

Wow, that's crazy.. Afaik, last time I checked, it's cheaper when dealing with ARIN? i.e. for small orgs, 500$/year + fee per block? (but indeed, I should have written "register with an RIR, such as ARIN/RIPE", instead of IANA.)

Yeah, ARIN is $500/yr for ISPs using a /22 or smaller of IPv4 space (i.e. 1022 addresses), $1000 for up to a /20 (4094 addresses): https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html

RIPE is a lot pricier for small members because it isn't tiered. Everyone pays €3800 the first year and then €1800/year thereafter: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/become-a-mem...

Re: Federating Do-It-Yourself ISPs from around the world

#24

Post by xhrpost »

nknighthb wrote: post #22
xhrpost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I was referencing some older info: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/2339/arin-stupid-policies

If I interpret that post correctly (and I'm not sure I do, because it sure reads like it was written by someone who doesn't really know what they're doing and has an axe to grind), they submitted a request for both IPv4 space and IPv6 space at the same time, and ARIN wanted to go through the approval process for IPv4 first. This is understandable and not surprising. At the end of the post it even says "Nothing stoppi…

OK, that all makes sense. I was clearly mistaken on that part then, thanks for the info.

Re: Federating Do-It-Yourself ISPs from around the world

#25

Post by mgbmtl »

nknighthb wrote: post #22
xhrpost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I was referencing some older info: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/2339/arin-stupid-policies

If I interpret that post correctly (and I'm not sure I do, because it sure reads like it was written by someone who doesn't really know what they're doing and has an axe to grind), they submitted a request for both IPv4 space and IPv6 space at the same time, and ARIN wanted to go through the approval process for IPv4 first. This is understandable and not surprising. At the end of the post it even says "Nothing stoppi…

The author probably misunderstood because having an IPv4 allocation makes the IPv6 allocation faster, almost automatic, since you have already proven that you need IPs and the RIR will want to encourage IPv6 adoption. (but having ipv4 is by no means mandatory)

Re: Federating Do-It-Yourself ISPs from around the world

#27

Post by ta_delallthings »

farinasa wrote: post #4

Have always been curious about setting up an ISP. Especially so recently. I have been unsuccessful finding much information, though I haven't tried as hard as I probably could. Anyone have any good links?

There is useful information on ffdn's wiki, if french is not an issue, in particular this 11 parts series on how to build an isp hosted on spyou's blog: http://blog.spyou.org/wordpress-mu/2010/06/09/comment-deveni...

Re: Federating Do-It-Yourself ISPs from around the world

#30

Post by taziden »

_delirium wrote: post #23
mgbmtl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's crazy.. Afaik, last time I checked, it's cheaper when dealing with ARIN? i.e. for small orgs, 500$/year + fee per block? (but indeed, I should have written "register with an RIR, such as ARIN/RIPE", instead of IANA.)

Yeah, ARIN is $500/yr for ISPs using a /22 or smaller of IPv4 space (i.e. 1022 addresses), $1000 for up to a /20 (4094 addresses): https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html RIPE is a lot pricier for small members because it isn't tiered. Everyone pays €3800 the first year and then €1800/year thereafter: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/become-a-mem...

These prices are for becoming a Local Internet Registry (LIR). You don't need this to provide access with your own adress blocks, AS and stuff.
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