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Inside TAO: Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

spiegel.de

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Re: Inside TAO: Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

#21

Post by us0r »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #17
us0r wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-10/nsa-spying-seen-ris... Clearly your unfamiliar with the rest of the world. They have all pretty much said your screwing up our business.

And you expected them to say...?

I don't know but the more billion dollar businesses that are complaining the more likely something is going to be done (let's not forget who funds elections). Maybe they gamed Google and Yahoo so well cause their "new" computers from Apple, Dell or whoever are being routed by UPS or Fedex to them first. Nothing would be too surprising at this point. Either way they should and hopefully will get a proper outing and when their names start getting ran through the press that's going to be xx more pissed off corporations.

Re: Inside TAO: Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

#22

Post by X4 »

caf wrote: post #20

The technique can literally be a race between servers, one that is described in internal intelligence agency jargon with phrases like: "Wait for client to initiate new connection," "Shoot!" and "Hope to beat server-to-client response." It would be interesting to build a tool that watches out for duplicate-but-different SYN/ACK and DNS answers.

What would be much much more interesting is to see the wall ONE of the HN members has made, that connects all the tiny pieces of leaks to a grand picture. Using the same tools they use to track us, "maths", or topological data analysis to precisely reveal who, what and how things connect.

If the one amongst us is ready, please post what you collected, I am sure everybody is as curious to see what there is. It's not just journalists who study the NSA revelations, but there are also hobbyists or simply some curious and innocent computer scientists (let's not say hackers here).

Re: Inside TAO: Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

#23

Post by MacsHeadroom »

X4 wrote: post #22
caf wrote: post #20

The technique can literally be a race between servers, one that is described in internal intelligence agency jargon with phrases like: "Wait for client to initiate new connection," "Shoot!" and "Hope to beat server-to-client response." It would be interesting to build a tool that watches out for duplicate-but-different SYN/ACK and DNS answers.

What would be much much more interesting is to see the wall ONE of the HN members has made, that connects all the tiny pieces of leaks to a grand picture. Using the same tools they use to track us, "maths", or topological data analysis to precisely reveal who, what and how things connect. If the one amongst us is ready, please post what you collected, I am sure everybody is as curious to see what there is. It's not j…

Are you calling someone out, specifically?

If the answer or "yes," don't reply.

Re: Inside TAO: Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

#24

Post by MacsHeadroom »

caf wrote: post #19
vxxzy wrote: post #2

They actually use the their sniffing capabilities to capture error reports sent by windows... Then use that info to target the machine. What an advantage.

Yes, I think this must be the most interesting part of the report: In one internal graphic, they replaced the text of Microsoft's original error message with one of their own reading, "This information may be intercepted by a foreign sigint system to gather detailed information and better exploit your machine." Does Microsoft's error reporting mechanism even use SSL?

Do you think the NSA doesn't either have Microsoft's private certs or has broke then already? I can't be bothered to find a source right now, but they already have all MS source code- so there's that too.

Re: Inside TAO: Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

#25

Post by caf »

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #24
caf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think this must be the most interesting part of the report: In one internal graphic, they replaced the text of Microsoft's original error message with one of their own reading, "This information may be intercepted by a foreign sigint system to gather detailed information and better exploit your machine." Does Microsoft's error reporting mechanism even use SSL?

Do you think the NSA doesn't either have Microsoft's private certs or has broke then already? I can't be bothered to find a source right now, but they already have all MS source code- so there's that too.

Why would I ask the question if I thought that they certainly didn't have those private keys?

It is an interesting question regardless - can anyone at my ISP read these error reports, too?

Re: Inside TAO: Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

#26

Post by rl3 »

tptacek wrote: post #10

For whatever it's worth it to any of you to know this, TAO is one of the worst kept secrets in infosec. As I understand it, there are several active, well-regarded software security experts on Twitter that come from TAO. There are even conspiracy theories that some of them still work for TAO as industry sleepers. If you had asked a software security person 5 years ago to name an NSA hacking program, there's a decent…

Out of curiosity, do you ever give pause when looking to hire people with that type of background? If they are hired, are some projects off-limits to them?

I know those sound like loaded questions, but they seem relevant if you have clients that are adverse to being targeted by the NSA. These days, mainstream companies like Google and Yahoo would arguably qualify.

On the other hand, I imagine employees with that type of background would be very beneficial in context of government and defense industry contracts.

Re: Inside TAO: Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

#27

Post by elithrar »

us0r wrote: post #21
CamperBob2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you expected them to say...?

I don't know but the more billion dollar businesses that are complaining the more likely something is going to be done (let's not forget who funds elections). Maybe they gamed Google and Yahoo so well cause their "new" computers from Apple, Dell or whoever are being routed by UPS or Fedex to them first. Nothing would be too surprising at this point. Either way they should and hopefully will get a proper outing and wh…

> (let's not forget who funds elections)

Defence contractors? Telcos? Hollywood? Pharmaceutical companies?

The big tech companies most of us talk about here are in the minority when it comes to lobbying, from what I understand.

Re: Inside TAO: Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

#28

Post by erichocean »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #9
us0r wrote: post #5

UPS, Fedex, DHL and Dell have some explaining to do.

"We got a National Security Letter. End of explanation."

"We got a National Security Letter."

They can't even say that. Instead they are legally obligated to say "We didn't get a National Security Letter" (even though they did, and acted on it).

Re: Inside TAO: Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

#29

Post by a3n »

malandrew wrote: post #15

This information now justifies having shipments sealed in a way that shows that they have been tampered with. Any foreign entity ordering goods from these companies now has an incentive to visit the shipping location and place their own identifying tape (that is frequently changed) on the packaged equipment and possibly GPS tracking devices on the shipment as well to be able to determine if they are diverted away fro…

> I would love to see someone start performing a large scale analysis of shipping paths using GPS tracking devices to create algorithms that flag certain shipping paths as anomalous.

And maybe that will be the nature of the first solutions or mitigations for this breakdown. Not tamper-proof, but tamper-evident, in the physical and digital worlds. You could then at least judge whether you should continue to trust the delivered item and/or its delivery path.

Total Information Awareness for the little guy.

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