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Harvard Student Charged In Bomb Hoax

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Re: Harvard Student Charged In Bomb Hoax

#21

Post by vezzy-fnord »

throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #10
Torgo wrote: post #2

http://www.scribd.com/doc/192157170/Eldo-Kim-Complaint It sounds like they determined from the email provider that the message came from a Tor exit node, then from there they looked for who had made a connection on Harvard campus to known Tor relays. He had, so they interviewed him and he confessed to everything. I don't see any strong indication of a weakness in Tor from this, but it's a bit concerning that you coul…

Serious question: why do people talk so highly of a security protocol which even Harvard students fail hard at actually using in real life? If people who are the global 99.999'th percentile of tech literacy lose their lives and careers relying on this stuff, in what way is it a meaningful solution to third-world victims of repressive governments? I'm assuming at this point that thousands of Syrian, Egyptian, Iranian,…

How did you arrive at the conclusion that because someone is a Harvard student, they're at an intellectual pinnacle and more specifically, are the global 99.999'th percentile of tech literacy?

Re: Harvard Student Charged In Bomb Hoax

#22

Post by quantumpotato_ »

jpwright wrote: post #7
Torgo wrote: post #2

http://www.scribd.com/doc/192157170/Eldo-Kim-Complaint It sounds like they determined from the email provider that the message came from a Tor exit node, then from there they looked for who had made a connection on Harvard campus to known Tor relays. He had, so they interviewed him and he confessed to everything. I don't see any strong indication of a weakness in Tor from this, but it's a bit concerning that you coul…

This basically adds no new information about Tor, except what we already knew -- that you should really have a private bridge, and that Tor traffic is readily discernible from normal traffic (hence, avoid using it on networks where authorization is linked to your identity!). The affidavit doesn't say how they linked the GuerillaMail address to Tor, presumably they used a subpoena. He could have easily avoided detecti…

Interesting. Isn't Skype owned by M$ though.. ?

Re: Harvard Student Charged In Bomb Hoax

#23

Post by throwaway_yy2Di »

toki5 wrote: post #15
throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: why do people talk so highly of a security protocol which even Harvard students fail hard at actually using in real life? If people who are the global 99.999'th percentile of tech literacy lose their lives and careers relying on this stuff, in what way is it a meaningful solution to third-world victims of repressive governments? I'm assuming at this point that thousands of Syrian, Egyptian, Iranian,…

The "failure" you mention here is his confession. If all they had to go on was what's in the article -- that "the person who used Guerilla Mail used Tor to access it" and "[Kim] used Tor around the same time the e-mails were sent" -- that's not enough to charge him with a crime. It's enough to go and talk to him about it, but if he had wanted to, he could have protected his identity (but possibly prolonged the invest…

Obviously the point at which a hostile government thinks you're a top suspect and interrogates you is the weakest link in the security chain. This guy had it comparatively easy: his interrogators weren't torturing him to death.

Re: Harvard Student Charged In Bomb Hoax

#24

Post by [deleted] »

quantumpotato_ wrote: post #22
jpwright wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This basically adds no new information about Tor, except what we already knew -- that you should really have a private bridge, and that Tor traffic is readily discernible from normal traffic (hence, avoid using it on networks where authorization is linked to your identity!). The affidavit doesn't say how they linked the GuerillaMail address to Tor, presumably they used a subpoena. He could have easily avoided detecti…

Interesting. Isn't Skype owned by M$ though.. ?

[deleted]

Re: Harvard Student Charged In Bomb Hoax

#26

Post by Crito »

throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #23
toki5 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "failure" you mention here is his confession. If all they had to go on was what's in the article -- that "the person who used Guerilla Mail used Tor to access it" and "[Kim] used Tor around the same time the e-mails were sent" -- that's not enough to charge him with a crime. It's enough to go and talk to him about it, but if he had wanted to, he could have protected his identity (but possibly prolonged the invest…

Obviously the point at which a hostile government thinks you're a top suspect and interrogates you is the weakest link in the security chain. This guy had it comparatively easy: his interrogators weren't torturing him to death.

To answer your initial question, people talk highly of Tor because if used properly it can move the weakest link from the technological into the interrogation room. Had he not used tor and had just signed into his email normally, they really wouldn't have needed a confession.

Nobody but a fool thinks that Tor (or any other piece of technology) is a silver bullet. It is just a tool, and like any tool, has intended uses and numerous shortcomings when you use it without knowing what it is for.

Trying to use Tor to protect you against interrogators who are convinced of your guilt and willing to torture you to death is like trying to toast your bread with a hammer. Completely nonsensical, though that does not mean a hammer is a bizarrely useless contraption invented and touted by fools. Asking what the point of Tor is if it cannot protect you from that is like asking what the point of body armor is if stepping on a landmine still blows your leg off.

Re: Harvard Student Charged In Bomb Hoax

#27

Post by whitehat2k9 »

moloch wrote: post #14
jpwright wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This basically adds no new information about Tor, except what we already knew -- that you should really have a private bridge, and that Tor traffic is readily discernible from normal traffic (hence, avoid using it on networks where authorization is linked to your identity!). The affidavit doesn't say how they linked the GuerillaMail address to Tor, presumably they used a subpoena. He could have easily avoided detecti…

Or just not confessed; him using TOR around the same time is not going to be enough to convict him.

This. It sounds like he folded as soon as he was interviewed by law enforcement. Don't underestimate the power of the $5 wrench. http://xkcd.com/538/

Re: Harvard Student Charged In Bomb Hoax

#28

Post by throwaway_yy2Di »

Crito wrote: post #26
throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously the point at which a hostile government thinks you're a top suspect and interrogates you is the weakest link in the security chain. This guy had it comparatively easy: his interrogators weren't torturing him to death.

To answer your initial question, people talk highly of Tor because if used properly it can move the weakest link from the technological into the interrogation room. Had he not used tor and had just signed into his email normally, they really wouldn't have needed a confession. Nobody but a fool thinks that Tor (or any other piece of technology) is a silver bullet. It is just a tool, and like any tool, has intended use…

"Had he not used tor and had just signed into his email normally, they really wouldn't have needed a confession."

Had he not used Tor, he would never have sent an email: he wouldn't have felt secure.

"Trying to use Tor to protect you against interrogators who are convinced of your guilt and willing to torture you to death is like trying to toast your bread with a hammer."

It's Tor [traffic analysis] that led integrators to him in the first place.

Also, Tor is frequently advertised for use against repressive governments.

Re: Harvard Student Charged In Bomb Hoax

#29

Post by Crito »

throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #28
Crito wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer your initial question, people talk highly of Tor because if used properly it can move the weakest link from the technological into the interrogation room. Had he not used tor and had just signed into his email normally, they really wouldn't have needed a confession. Nobody but a fool thinks that Tor (or any other piece of technology) is a silver bullet. It is just a tool, and like any tool, has intended use…

"Had he not used tor and had just signed into his email normally, they really wouldn't have needed a confession." Had he not used Tor, he would never have sent an email: he wouldn't have felt secure. "Trying to use Tor to protect you against interrogators who are convinced of your guilt and willing to torture you to death is like trying to toast your bread with a hammer." It's Tor [traffic analysis] that led integrat…

> "Had he not used Tor, he would never have sent an email: he wouldn't have felt secure."

That is unknowable, certainly not certain. Plenty of people called in bomb threats before Tor was invented. Hell, he may have just pulled the fire alarm instead.

> "It's Tor [traffic analysis] that led integrators to him in the first place."

Tor is not safe from traffic analysis; it is pretty trivial to figure out if someone is using Tor. This is a well known limitation of Tor that must be understood by anybody using it, particularly if they are living under a repressive government.

If you are using Tor with the expectation that nobody will be able to tell that you are using Tor, then you are trying to hammer bread into toast. That is simply not what the tool is for.

It is certainly possible that the Tor project needs to work harder at making sure people understand this.

Re: Harvard Student Charged In Bomb Hoax

#30

Post by anigbrowl »

Torgo wrote: post #2

http://www.scribd.com/doc/192157170/Eldo-Kim-Complaint It sounds like they determined from the email provider that the message came from a Tor exit node, then from there they looked for who had made a connection on Harvard campus to known Tor relays. He had, so they interviewed him and he confessed to everything. I don't see any strong indication of a weakness in Tor from this, but it's a bit concerning that you coul…

I don't think Tor is suspicious as such, it's just that it's sufficiently unusual as to be worth following up for statistical reasons. By consumer standards it's pretty obscure; the same would be true of PasteBin or many other sites where someone might conceivably make a hoax claim.
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