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FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

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Re: FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

#21

Post by switch007 »

lukifer wrote: post #13
npsimons wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in a lot of toothpastes, and a lot of soft soaps. I've had to look hard to find brands that don't include it.

Care to share your findings? I've already stopped using Listerine (which ended up being the right decision) and I'm growing skeptical even of "hippie" toothpastes. Thinking about moving to just baking soda paste.

I haven't used toothpaste regularly for about 8 years. I've never told my dentists. I have had 3 fillings but I'm not sure if not using toothpaste was a contributor (I used to be really lazy with flossing. I think that's more likely).

Re: FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

#22

Post by raverbashing »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #7
raverbashing wrote: post #3

Not to mention increased resistance from bacteria And of course the needed contact with foreign agents to build immune resistance. Use antibacterial soap when needed: hospitals

Is there any evidence for this? Generally speaking, one would expect biocide resistant bacteria to be less antibiotic resistant.

Biocide resistance is also a problem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiseptic#Evolved_resistance

I'm not sure if there's a relation of resistance between biocides and antibiotics

Re: FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

#23

Post by ndespres »

npsimons wrote: post #10
solox3 wrote: post #9

Triclosan is not only found in antibacterial soaps. It is also found in Colgate's regular and whitening toothpaste (this might be specific to Canada), where it comes into contact with your gastrointestinal tract.

It's in a lot of toothpastes, and a lot of soft soaps. I've had to look hard to find brands that don't include it.

I make my own soaps at home with only organic oils and lye, and I'll be happy to sell you some! :)

Off the shelf at a regular store though, it's hard to find soaps (and toothpastes) without these ingredients. Just one more reason to DIY, especially with things that are going in/on your body.

Re: FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

#24

Post by VLM »

You have a natural gut flora; you have a natural skin flora. Screwing around with your gut flora is uncontroversially seen as a bad thing. Screwing around with your skin flora strikes me as a similar argument.

I would be interested to know of any summary of dermatology studies on anti-bacterial soaps. I would theorize that much as screwing around with your gut flora leads to all manner of uncomfortable stinkiness, so should screwing around with your skin flora. So people who use overly aggressive decontamination solutions on their bodies should be stinkier and have more and weirder rashes than people using normal stuff.

Re: FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

#25

Post by bunderbunder »

aestra wrote: post #2

Antibacterial soaps have been shown to be slightly more effective at removing bacteria than non-anti bacteria soaps. ( http://dx.doi.org/10.4315/0362-028X.JFP-11-122 http://dx.doi.org/10.1128/AEM.02405-07 ) Safer? Probably not. Probably not worth the risks.

The 2nd link is to a small study, with n=~10 for each of the sample groups. Small enough that it's hard to take it to say anything too firm on the subject.

The 1st one is a meta analysis of similarly small studies. When you've got a meta-analysis of small studies showing an overall small effect size, there's a good chance that the only thing the meta-analysis actually measures is the file drawer effect.

Re: FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

#26

Post by VLM »

switch007 wrote: post #21
lukifer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share your findings? I've already stopped using Listerine (which ended up being the right decision) and I'm growing skeptical even of "hippie" toothpastes. Thinking about moving to just baking soda paste.

I haven't used toothpaste regularly for about 8 years. I've never told my dentists. I have had 3 fillings but I'm not sure if not using toothpaste was a contributor (I used to be really lazy with flossing. I think that's more likely).

Whats your diet? I'm not trying to ignite the traditional HN flamewar about the evils of a science based paleo diet, but I have had a similar experience where not eating grains or sugar none the less results in a relatively tartar free mouth per my dentist. Even though I hate waiting and am impatient and do not visit every 3 months or whatever often its supposed to be.

Archeologically, before people started eating grains and processed "psuedo-food" we mostly died with good teeth and its a stereotypical observation that you can tell when grain agriculture sets in with a people when their teeth start rotting out at a young age.

Re: FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

#27

Post by enkephalin »

DanBC wrote: post #4

The US CDC has a nice document called "When is Clean Too Clean?" http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/7/2/70-0225_article.htm Some people are expected to wash their hands a lot. Clinicians, people preparing food, etc. It's important to us that they have clean hands. Some cleaning routines damage the skin, causing places where risky germs can hide. Sometimes cleaning just moves germs that are safely colonising skin into t…

> I'm not sure what the research is?

at least for infants/children, the research is in favor of introducing bacteria to the immune system.

Exposure to microbes during early childhood is associated with protection from immune-mediated diseases such as inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) and asthma.

...

These results indicate that age-sensitive contact with commensal microbes is critical for establishing mucosal iNKT cell tolerance to later environmental exposures.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6080/489.abstract#aff-...

also some interesting info on children delivered by c-sections (which prevents newborns from getting into contact with the diverse vaginal flora):

CS was associated with a lower total microbial diversity, delayed colonisation of the Bacteroidetes phylum and reduced Th1 responses during the first 2 years of life.

http://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2013/07/09/gutjnl-2012-3032...

there's much more info to be found on the topic. these are just the ones i recently stumbled upon.

Re: FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

#28

Post by switch007 »

VLM wrote: post #26
switch007 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't used toothpaste regularly for about 8 years. I've never told my dentists. I have had 3 fillings but I'm not sure if not using toothpaste was a contributor (I used to be really lazy with flossing. I think that's more likely).

Whats your diet? I'm not trying to ignite the traditional HN flamewar about the evils of a science based paleo diet, but I have had a similar experience where not eating grains or sugar none the less results in a relatively tartar free mouth per my dentist. Even though I hate waiting and am impatient and do not visit every 3 months or whatever often its supposed to be. Archeologically, before people started eating gr…

Pretty awful to be honest! Way too much sugar and not enough vegetables. (I don't drink juice/cola/etc, though)

Re: FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

#29

Post by adrr »

simoncion wrote: post #14
lukifer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share your findings? I've already stopped using Listerine (which ended up being the right decision) and I'm growing skeptical even of "hippie" toothpastes. Thinking about moving to just baking soda paste.

What's wrong with Listerine?

Alcohol can inflame your gums which can lead to gum disease. Best to use non alcohol versions.

Re: FDA: Antibacterial soaps could pose health risks

#30

Post by glaugh »

enkephalin wrote: post #27
DanBC wrote: post #4

The US CDC has a nice document called "When is Clean Too Clean?" http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/7/2/70-0225_article.htm Some people are expected to wash their hands a lot. Clinicians, people preparing food, etc. It's important to us that they have clean hands. Some cleaning routines damage the skin, causing places where risky germs can hide. Sometimes cleaning just moves germs that are safely colonising skin into t…

> I'm not sure what the research is? at least for infants/children, the research is in favor of introducing bacteria to the immune system. Exposure to microbes during early childhood is associated with protection from immune-mediated diseases such as inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) and asthma. ... These results indicate that age-sensitive contact with commensal microbes is critical for establishing mucosal iNKT cell…

The book "Epidemic of Absence" is the best summary of the research on this, to my knowledge.
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