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Techies Are the New Puritans

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Re: Techies Are the New Puritans

#21

Post by gaius »

aaronem wrote: post #16
benched wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody contributes nothing to society. Even if nothing else, the wretched of the earth offer those better off an opportunity to practice not being fuckfaces. In many philosophical traditions, that's a pretty big deal.

Philosophical traditions, is it? How about "By the sweat of thy brow shalt thou earn thy daily bread"? And, while I'm at it, "The poor will always be with you"?

And Marx wrote "from each according to his ability" before "to each according to his need". How did non-contributors fare in Marxists states? Well they were sent to forced labour camps where they worked or they starved.

Re: Techies Are the New Puritans

#22

Post by n72 »

mratzloff wrote: post #5

Techies like to think of themselves as different from the very wealthy, but many of our attitudes are very similar and most techies aspire to join their ranks. There's a persistent belief in common with the wealthy that we have earned, solely through our hard work and perseverance, our position in society. Never mind the advantages we had along the way.

What does "techies" mean? Greg Gopman's Angel List profile says: " Business Development, Communications, Community Management, Networking, Sales and Marketing, Working Really Hard." This isn't a techie. He happens to be working in the tech industry because that's where the money is at the moment, but I wouldn't call him a techie. (I'd call him a douche, but that's a whole other topic.) I think we need to start divorcing the thought that SV these days is primarily a techie place and that the people who work at SV companies are techies. Many of them are like this guy. Moreover, many of the programmers are programmers, but (and this may be being elitist) can we call them techies? If someone learns a bit of JS or ruby to throw together proof-of-concept copy-cat site, can we really call them a techie?

Re: Techies Are the New Puritans

#23

Post by cynicalkane »

Crito wrote: post #17

I suppose the elephant in the room is whether or not 'techies' are repulsed by the homeless because accusations like "...[they] spit, urinate, taunt you, sell drugs, get rowdy..." have a basis in reality. I don't live in SF, so I can only go off what I hear (from the accused 'techies', so I'm only getting one side of the propaganda here..), but what I have heard is that 1) the homeless really seem to love SF, preferr…

Add "verbal and sexual harassment of women in the street" to that list.

Re: Techies Are the New Puritans

#24

Post by borgopants »

As a software engineer, this problem has been prevalent in my mind lately. My main question is this: how can we, as members of the technology industry, use our skills to help solve the homelessness problem?

I've seen a lot of people suggesting that learning to code is a solution, which feels like a very disconnected kind of response. If you're trying to stay warm and survive from day to day, buying a computer is surely the lowest priority. Another solution is raising awareness via the web. In the social media era though, this has the negative of making people feel like they've done something by sharing a link or upvoting a story without actually making an actual difference, so I don't feel like this, by itself, is a great solution.

The disparity between people in the technology industry and the homeless is so huge, and noticeable, in areas like San Francisco that I feel it is our responsibility to give back and try and make a difference somehow. What are some ways that this could be achieved?

Re: Techies Are the New Puritans

#25

Post by pron »

aaronem wrote: post #2

> In the Puritan model of charity, the rich have an obligation to do good for the poor—but the poor also have an obligation to the rich, to try to be a useful part of the same society. The article's author not only disagrees, but considers this model so obviously erroneous that she doesn't see any need to explain what's wrong with it. I find this unhelpful, because it fails to explain why subsidizing people who contr…

She doesn't explain because because this model really is so obviously erroneous, but only after you accumulate enough experiences in life, or, if you want a shortcut, after you read enough books written by those who have experienced a thing or two. Some things can't be explained in a few sentences, because they are not mathematically true, but happen to be true in this particular world of ours. Sometimes, it's hard to explain how the world really works; you have to experience it in the flesh, and it takes a while.

Re: Techies Are the New Puritans

#26

Post by 67726e »

Is the relation really all that surprising to people? We programmers tend to be a fairly self-reliant bunch. Ever told someone "RTFM"? Many of us are self-motivated, and probably self-taught to at least a certain degree. You think "It's just so easy, anyone can do it if they put in the work" and as a result you see unsuccessful, downtrodden people and think they just didn't want to put in their 10.000 hours like the rest of us.

Re: Techies Are the New Puritans

#27

Post by aaronem »

Crito wrote: post #17

I suppose the elephant in the room is whether or not 'techies' are repulsed by the homeless because accusations like "...[they] spit, urinate, taunt you, sell drugs, get rowdy..." have a basis in reality. I don't live in SF, so I can only go off what I hear (from the accused 'techies', so I'm only getting one side of the propaganda here..), but what I have heard is that 1) the homeless really seem to love SF, preferr…

Facts, Citizen? How reductionist of you.

As to your first point, I gather San Francisco very rarely has weather so inhospitable as to render living outdoors dangerous or even particularly unpleasant. As to your second, I forget who characterized man as "where the falling angel meets the rising ape", but it's an apt enough metaphor, and we fail to encourage the former at peril of encouraging the latter.

Re: Techies Are the New Puritans

#28

Post by roin »

This article paints SV with too broad a brush, but this is a big problem. There is a tendency here to oversimplify really complex problems. That's a good thing when you need to take a leap of faith and start a company to tackle those problems, but a bad thing when you lack empathy for less fortunate people around you.

Guess what, most of these people have struggles that we can't begin to understand. A lot are dealing with mental health issues that are more debilitating than anything you or I will ever have to deal with. I live on Market St., and I'm as guilty as anyone of becoming numb to the homeless living there. But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that anyone can grab a Rails tutorial and become a six-figure engineer within a few years just because we've seen it done.

Re: Techies Are the New Puritans

#29

Post by smtddr »

aaronem wrote: post #2

> In the Puritan model of charity, the rich have an obligation to do good for the poor—but the poor also have an obligation to the rich, to try to be a useful part of the same society. The article's author not only disagrees, but considers this model so obviously erroneous that she doesn't see any need to explain what's wrong with it. I find this unhelpful, because it fails to explain why subsidizing people who contr…

Isn't compassion for others and the desire to end others' suffering enough of a reason without any other incentive?

If in a hypothetical conversation, someone said to me "They contribute nothing; they should all just die & starve or just get out of the way." ... my response would be that it's us, the people with wealth(or at least not living paycheck2paycheck) who have the most power to change society and allow it to support them somehow. I don't really know how exactly, but the first experiment I'd vote for is basic-income and see how that pans out.

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