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Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

thomasbell.co.uk

21–30 of 68 posts

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#21
post #3

Don't tell me what to do. Tell me why I should.

There are plenty of reasons why you should care about gender diversity - many of them linked in the article/letter, if you had bothered to read it. The most obvious being: because you said you care about diversity. CompanyX claimed to support diversity and integration, but didn't make it a priority. If one can't trust the management to hold itself accountable on something so visible, why trust them about anything else?

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#22
post #8

[deleted]

Really? Where is the sexism? Here's a link to the discussion as of the time of your comment:

http://archive.is/yjT2g

It looks like you're using "sexism" to mean "views that are not in lockstep with rude, hyper-privileged feminist activists who make thinly-veiled threats toward groups of people for having too many penises".

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#23
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? Then it's pretty clear you've done a bad job of advertising your job openings. Did you, perhaps, just ask for referrals among your own personal network?

I'm sorry am I supposed to go out of my way to directly extend a hand to women as well? Are they part of some other entirely exclusive development network that I haven't specifically advertised to? I reckon if we're all on the same page of development, we're frequenting the same communities, forums, and job listings. Why not look at majors where there are nearly no men. We should start actively making men seek fashio…

> I'm sorry am I supposed to go out of my way to directly extend a hand to women as well?

In a word? Yes.

Women are seriously under-represented in the tech community, so if your recruiting effort only extends to your friends and their friends. (And this kind of 'hey, do you know a good ____ dev?' search is pretty common for small firms) then it's statistically unlikely you're going to get many good female candidates.

I don't think you're morally obligated to hire a woman just for the sake of diversity--you should hire whoever's best for the role. But I do think you're obliged to at least consider qualified women. And I find it laughable to suggest that there simply don't exist good female candidates. They are numerically fewer; you have to make an effort to find them.

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#24
Based on my corporate experience, there is normaly at least one department that is the opposite of IT in terms of gender balance - Human Resources.

I wonder if people women in Human Resources are running campaigns to recruit more men into their departments?

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#25
> This is especially surprising considering that many of their partners are ex-Accenture, a company that in my experience placed a strong emphasis on recruiting and promoting female talent at the highest levels.

The minute someone throws out Accenture as a positive example of how to run a business is the minute they lose their own credibility. It turns out it's easy to hire whoever you want if competence is not a requirement. Otherwise, if you hire in a field where most qualified candidiates are men, your employees will be predominantly men.

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if I started a company, and all good candidates were male, and the women weren't on par? What if no women applied at all? Then it's pretty clear you've done a bad job of advertising your job openings. Did you, perhaps, just ask for referrals among your own personal network?

>Then it's pretty clear you've done a bad job of advertising your job openings. Did you, perhaps, just ask for referrals among your own personal network? That is pure conjecture, there are differences in the way men and women think, with men more naturally drawn to STEM fields, and to attempt to legislate equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity would be reverse sexism. Notice there is no mention of pa…

You're reading things into my comment that I didn't write.

The parent I was responding to suggested that he might have openings at his company for which there aren't any "good" (or even any at all) female applicants. I find it absurd to suggest that there are zero qualified women existing in the world, so the problem is one of finding and recruiting them to apply.

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#28
post #24

Based on my corporate experience, there is normaly at least one department that is the opposite of IT in terms of gender balance - Human Resources. I wonder if people women in Human Resources are running campaigns to recruit more men into their departments?

Of course not. Feminists will tell you this with a straight face: it's only sexism if it disadvantages women.

That's why feminists only started caring about STEM when it became high-status. Feminists are glad to let men do all the low-status shit jobs, like garbage collection or construction or working in oil fields, as long as such work remains low-status. 20 years ago, programming was low status and women were obsessed with becoming doctors and lawyers because medicine and law were very high status. 20 years from now there will be lots of women programmers just like there are lots of women doctors and lawyers today.

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#29

How any company can expect to build a sustainable long-term business when not one of their 14 Partners/Advisors is female is beyond me. This piece seems... I don't know the right word for it. It's not reverse sexism. But anyway, even if the world was completely un-sexist and genders were perfectly equal, would we not expect simply due to chance to see some boards with 14 members of only one gender? So while it is con…

14/14 company partners were male. They claimed to support diversity within their organization.

The probability that the "supportive of diversity" claim is true and that the make up of the board is all male by random chance is quite small (naively, 1/(2^14) ).

Re: Be a Man and Stand Up for Gender Equality

#30
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Then it's pretty clear you've done a bad job of advertising your job openings. Did you, perhaps, just ask for referrals among your own personal network? That is pure conjecture, there are differences in the way men and women think, with men more naturally drawn to STEM fields, and to attempt to legislate equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity would be reverse sexism. Notice there is no mention of pa…

You're reading things into my comment that I didn't write. The parent I was responding to suggested that he might have openings at his company for which there aren't any "good" (or even any at all) female applicants. I find it absurd to suggest that there are zero qualified women existing in the world, so the problem is one of finding and recruiting them to apply.

You are still suggesting that firms are somehow obligated to go out of their way to hire females due to some misguided sense of morality. Putting in extra effort to find a female developers would cost money that smaller firms may not have.
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