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How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

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Re: How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

#21
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, you're missing the point. There is no difference between "the dishes" and "really living". To suggest otherwise would be to suggest you don't control everything the dishes are and aren't. Which would be silly.

I guess I'm missing the point too then. The article seemed to be pointing out that it's up to you whether you decide to make doing the dishes an enjoyable activity or a chore. The point rottencupcakes seems to be making is that this might be true, but if doing the dishes in an enjoyable way makes them take longer, then he'd rather just not bother and get them done faster while not enjoying it. This makes some sense t…

Funnily enough I actually like doing the dishes, and cleaning in general. Unlike almost everything else I ever seem to do, it's a simple task with an unambiguous "end condition", unambiguous and well-defined motivation, and instant payoff with a nice clean kitchen.

I like this passage from Iain M. Banks, which sums up my feelings well:

He walked for days, stopping at bars and restaurants whenever he felt thirsty, hungry or tired; mostly they were automatic and he was served by little floating trays, though a few were staffed by real people. They seemed less like servants and more like customers who'd taken a notion to help out for a while.

'Of course I don't have to do this,' one middle-aged man said, carefully cleaning the table with a damp cloth. He put the cloth in a little pouch, sat down beside him. 'But look; this table's clean.'

He agreed that the table was clean.

'Usually,' the man said. 'I work on alien - no offence - alien religions; Directional Emphasis In Religious Observance; that's my speciality... like when temples or graves or prayers always have to face in a certain direction; that sort of thing? Well, I catalogue, evaluate, compare; I come up with theories and argue with colleagues, here and elsewhere. But... the job's never finished; always new examples, and even the old ones get re-evaluated, and new people come along with new ideas about what you thought was settled... but,' he slapped the table, 'when you clean a table you clean a table. You feel you've done something. It's an achievement.'

'But in the end, it's still just cleaning a table.'

'And therefore does not really signify on the cosmic scale of events?' the man suggested.

He smiled in response to the man's grin, 'Well, yes.'

'But then, what does signify? My other work? Is that really important, either? I could try composing wonderful musical works, or day-long entertainment epics, but what would that do? Give people pleasure? My wiping this table gives me plea­sure. And people come to a clean table, which gives them pleasure. And anyway,' the man laughed, 'people die; stars die; universes die. What is any achievement, however great it was, once time itself is dead? Of course, if all I did was wipe tables, then of course it would seem a mean and despicable waste of my huge intellectual potential. But because I choose to do it, it gives me pleasure. And,' the man said with a smile, 'it's a good way of meeting people. So; where are you from, anyway?'

Re: How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

#22

Not what I expected, but it was nice.

I mean, I guess this article is true to some degree. But, really, if by 'doing the dishes to do the dishes', doing the dishes takes me twice as long, I don't want to do it that way. I'd much prefer to rush through it in half the time, to spend the other part of the time 'really living,' doing something I truly do enjoy or want to do.

Why would it take you twice as long? If anything it will take less time, since you're paying attention. It's not a compromise, not from this point of view at least.

It won't _seem_ to take longer either, though this is a more subtle point. When you wash dishes wanting to just get it over with and move on to the next thing you'll be aware of the time almost constantly. Every extra cup you missed the first time is an annoyance. If you pay attention on the other hand you're most likely to achieve "flow" - which is incredibly easy to achieve with such menial activities btw. So not only you'll wash the dishes in most likely the least time possible, you won't even be aware of that time passing.

Re: How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

#23
post #20

As with most things in life, too much of anything is generally a bad thing. If one constantly lives in the moment, forsaking entirely the idea of a future and its implications, then the chances of amounting to anything in life are greatly reduced, since the ability to look forward and hope for a better reality are tightly entwined with the concept of planning. How can one develop both personally and professionally wi…

Planning for the future is an aspect of the present moment. Kind of like children. They are our future but they exist now, in the present moment.

Can one actually "imagine the future" in the mindful way the article suggests? Or is that a contradiction in terms? One resolution:

One can imagine an abstract model of a concrete physical object (e.g. a lever; a geometry; a count of objects) and then ignore the concrete reality, and become so fully immersed in the abstraction that one loses track of time. I suggest that this is a form of mindfulness. Thinking about an abstraction is not necessarily mindful: it can be done in a non-mindful way by being constantly distracted by other concrete objects or other abstract models. Mindfulness is flow.

The "future" is a abstract model, and so the above also applies to it.

For human beings, these imagined interior worlds - be they abstractions of objects or of the future - as just as much a reality as the physical world. I suggest that we naturally and instinctively apprehend them in the same way, and both can be done in mindfulness - or not.

Re: How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

#24

Not what I expected, but it was nice.

I mean, I guess this article is true to some degree. But, really, if by 'doing the dishes to do the dishes', doing the dishes takes me twice as long, I don't want to do it that way. I'd much prefer to rush through it in half the time, to spend the other part of the time 'really living,' doing something I truly do enjoy or want to do.

It doesn't have anything to do with how long it takes - you wash the dishes for as long as it takes for them to be clean. When they're done, they're done. What he's talking about (and I first experienced this while washing dishes, strangely enough) is the startlingly different mental state that develops when you stop thinking.

Stop thinking about whether the dishes are clean enough or not, you can see that. Stop thinking about whether it's fun or what you could you would rather be doing, which is only going to distract you from what you're tying to do now. Washing the dishes requires paying attention but not much in the way of cogitation. Instead of splitting yourself in two, just give the mental chatter a rest and look at what you are doing.

Re: How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

#25

As with most things in life, too much of anything is generally a bad thing. If one constantly lives in the moment, forsaking entirely the idea of a future and its implications, then the chances of amounting to anything in life are greatly reduced, since the ability to look forward and hope for a better reality are tightly entwined with the concept of planning. How can one develop both personally and professionally wi…

Living in the moment doesn't necessarily exclude planning for the future. But it should exclude obsessing about the future. There's only so much planning you can do in this very moment (and it's usually not much, think about how long it really takes to come up with a plan or solution for the first time). Looping over it again and again will not change anything. It'll only make you miss what's happening now.

Re: How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

#26
I notice a huge difference in how much "stuff" happens in my life when I'm traveling vs. when I have a job.

Home life is measured in weeks and months, and when you ask somebody what's new, they'll say "not much" and maybe tell you what they did last weekend. Or the weekend before that.

Road life is measured in hours. I'll find myself telling somebody a story of this amazing thing that happened earlier on my trip, possibly in another country, and suddenly realize that it was only 3 days ago. A month of travelling compresses so much life into such a short span that it's really strange checking in with friends back in the world that can account for that same month with a single sentence.

There are times when life in the 'states can approximate that (the first weeks of a new startup for instance), but it's so easy to drop back into steady state where life is measured in calendar time.

Re: How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

#27

I notice a huge difference in how much "stuff" happens in my life when I'm traveling vs. when I have a job. Home life is measured in weeks and months, and when you ask somebody what's new, they'll say "not much" and maybe tell you what they did last weekend. Or the weekend before that. Road life is measured in hours. I'll find myself telling somebody a story of this amazing thing that happened earlier on my trip, pos…

I couldn't agree with this more, what is life really about at the end of the day? Exploring the world, adventures and meeting people from all cultures and corners of the earth would be my best answer.

Unfortunately we're somewhat trapped in by the slave driver that is money, when you eventually return from travels to settle down, you need to adhere to normal society.

Hopefully the startup will fix that, otherwise I'll just have to do it on the cheap and worry about money later ;)

Re: How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

#28

I notice a huge difference in how much "stuff" happens in my life when I'm traveling vs. when I have a job. Home life is measured in weeks and months, and when you ask somebody what's new, they'll say "not much" and maybe tell you what they did last weekend. Or the weekend before that. Road life is measured in hours. I'll find myself telling somebody a story of this amazing thing that happened earlier on my trip, pos…

I couldn't agree with this more, what is life really about at the end of the day? Exploring the world, adventures and meeting people from all cultures and corners of the earth would be my best answer. Unfortunately we're somewhat trapped in by the slave driver that is money, when you eventually return from travels to settle down, you need to adhere to normal society. Hopefully the startup will fix that, otherwise I'l…

Remember this:

Ramen Profitable == Beach Profitable

If your service can bring in $500/month, you can pretty much coast indefinitely in a place like Thailand, assuming you completely shut down your life back home. $1000 profit/month will get you to the point where you can travel from place to place. Double that again and you'll actually build your savings while dirtbagging around the world.

Re: How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree with this more, what is life really about at the end of the day? Exploring the world, adventures and meeting people from all cultures and corners of the earth would be my best answer. Unfortunately we're somewhat trapped in by the slave driver that is money, when you eventually return from travels to settle down, you need to adhere to normal society. Hopefully the startup will fix that, otherwise I'l…

Remember this: Ramen Profitable == Beach Profitable If your service can bring in $500/month, you can pretty much coast indefinitely in a place like Thailand, assuming you completely shut down your life back home. $1000 profit/month will get you to the point where you can travel from place to place. Double that again and you'll actually build your savings while dirtbagging around the world.

I am practically there already but I have a few things to sort out at home first, so may have to go an extra mile.

My ultimate goal would be to buy a cheapish yacht (they're cheaper than most people think) and sail around the world, like this guy: www.bigoceans.com - once you've got the yacht its not that expensive, I think that would be the ultimate freedom for me, and you can visit places that the average tourist can't get to!

Saying that, any kind of travel is good. I see you live by your word!

Re: How Much Of Life Are You Actually Living?

#30
It was a nice read!!! I am having the problem of not leaving into now. While working i always thinking about other fun stuff and while fun activity i always thinking about my tasks. Does others also having the same issue, and any technique to improve this.
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