Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

cleantechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 52 posts

Re: Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

#21

Post by gsnedders »

conductor wrote: post #16
riggins wrote: post #14

I can't wait for widespread adoption of electric cars and reduced pollution.

Are you sure it will reduce the pollution (genuine question)? The cars will stop polluting directly but the electricity producers will start producing much more electricity (which is much more pollution) to feed the cars. So, which of these two pollutions is better - nuclear waste/pollution or co2?

The majority of electricity in Norway comes from renewable sources — mostly from hydro-electric power (which is, inevitably, relatively easy in a mostly sparsely populated, mountainous country).

Re: Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

#22

Post by dghughes »

dagss wrote: post #3

As a Norwegian this keep coming up in lunch conversations. I just bought an old used car from somebody buying a Tesla. What we come back to is the very high sale taxes on new cars in Norway (our "rule of thumb" is that cars are close to twice as expensive in Norway as in some other countries), but that most(/all?) of those taxes are waived for electric. So the alternative to getting, e.g., a Tesla is paying almost tw…

What about driving in the snow?

As a Canadian I can't see a Tesla being of any use in the winter, do people talk about that?

Re: Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

#23

Post by dghughes »

embro wrote: post #9
tobiasu wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't wait for Canada to put a 100+% tax on gas-powered vehicles? I have bad news for you...

To be honest, that would make my day, I wish gas was triple the actual price.

Well then you're also hoping for your food to triple in price because what do you think the farmers and fishermen here in Canada use for energy to power their vehicles?

Or is that just typical Toronto center of the universe thinking?

Re: Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

#24

Post by Avshalom »

dmm wrote: post #15
pearkes wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live in the city with public transportation? Then I would definitely agree. Otherwise, Canada can be really big and rural. Not having access to car (or in this case, potentially not being able to afford it) can be really damaging to your career, lifestyle, social life. I grew up in the interior of BC 9 hours East of Vancouver. All of our driving policy (new driver rules and licensing) was dreamed up by street…

Another way to see this is that everybody is subsidizing rural lifestyles by bearing the cost of their externalities.

You know that "rural" is where all of your food, energy and building materials come from right?

Re: Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

#25

Post by unfasten »

_delirium wrote: post #8
dagss wrote: post #3

As a Norwegian this keep coming up in lunch conversations. I just bought an old used car from somebody buying a Tesla. What we come back to is the very high sale taxes on new cars in Norway (our "rule of thumb" is that cars are close to twice as expensive in Norway as in some other countries), but that most(/all?) of those taxes are waived for electric. So the alternative to getting, e.g., a Tesla is paying almost tw…

The electricity:petrol price ratio is also more favorable in Norway than many other countries, thanks to a combination of high petrol taxes but not too expensive electricity (due to the large hydroelectric capacity). For example, in California, typical petrol prices are around $0.85/L ($3.20/gal), and residential electricity prices are around $0.17/kWh. So you get about 5 kWh of electricity for the cost of a liter of…

For my own curiosity I completed the gasoline end of the math above. Hopefully I didn't botch any of it. If so, please correct me:

According to Wikipedia¹ the energy of gasoline is ≈11.8 kWh/kg at a density of ≈0.74 kg/l, giving us 8.7 kWh/l. For California, using the $0.85/l price, we get $0.10/kWh (rounded from $0.09770) for gasoline. Norway, at $2.45/l, gives us $0.28/kWh.

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Energy_content

Re: Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

#26

Post by bjelkeman-again »

Zitrax wrote: post #5
dagss wrote: post #3

As a Norwegian this keep coming up in lunch conversations. I just bought an old used car from somebody buying a Tesla. What we come back to is the very high sale taxes on new cars in Norway (our "rule of thumb" is that cars are close to twice as expensive in Norway as in some other countries), but that most(/all?) of those taxes are waived for electric. So the alternative to getting, e.g., a Tesla is paying almost tw…

About prices, I compared prices in Sweden of a new Audi A4 and a Tesla S as normally cars are much more expensive in Norway, but for Tesla it's cheaper in Norway. I have not checked any rules about taxes or such, just got the prices for the same model from audis and teslas regional web pages. Sweden Norway Audi A4 33 269 64 843 Tesla S 70 798 55 682 (Prices in €)

Bummer you have to pay import duty when importing from Norway to Sweden.

Re: Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

#27

Post by cryptoz »

conductor wrote: post #16
riggins wrote: post #14

I can't wait for widespread adoption of electric cars and reduced pollution.

Are you sure it will reduce the pollution (genuine question)? The cars will stop polluting directly but the electricity producers will start producing much more electricity (which is much more pollution) to feed the cars. So, which of these two pollutions is better - nuclear waste/pollution or co2?

The economies of scale in electricity production are immense, so yes it is indeed an improvement to move to electric cars even if all electric cars are fed by dirty pollutants. Which they aren't.

Also, a move to a less polluting industry is more than the sum of the direct effects; you must also consider research and momentum - as more electric cars are built, solar power and battery efficiency will also improve. If you take the opinion that an electric car is the same as a gas car because at some point they both pollute, you'll never make any progress anywhere.

Re: Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

#28

Post by dagss »

unfasten wrote: post #25
_delirium wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The electricity:petrol price ratio is also more favorable in Norway than many other countries, thanks to a combination of high petrol taxes but not too expensive electricity (due to the large hydroelectric capacity). For example, in California, typical petrol prices are around $0.85/L ($3.20/gal), and residential electricity prices are around $0.17/kWh. So you get about 5 kWh of electricity for the cost of a liter of…

For my own curiosity I completed the gasoline end of the math above. Hopefully I didn't botch any of it. If so, please correct me: According to Wikipedia¹ the energy of gasoline is ≈11.8 kWh/kg at a density of ≈0.74 kg/l, giving us 8.7 kWh/l. For California, using the $0.85/l price, we get $0.10/kWh (rounded from $0.09770) for gasoline. Norway, at $2.45/l, gives us $0.28/kWh. ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#…

What this doesn't include is the efficiency of motors. Gasoline engines has an efficiency of 25-30%. Electrical cars are much more efficient (Tesla seems to quote 88% for Tesla Roadster). So while your calculation shows that you about break even, taking this into account should mean electricity is in the area of 3x cheaper in Norway (when used for powering cars).

Re: Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

#29

Post by zefhous »

dghughes wrote: post #22
dagss wrote: post #3

As a Norwegian this keep coming up in lunch conversations. I just bought an old used car from somebody buying a Tesla. What we come back to is the very high sale taxes on new cars in Norway (our "rule of thumb" is that cars are close to twice as expensive in Norway as in some other countries), but that most(/all?) of those taxes are waived for electric. So the alternative to getting, e.g., a Tesla is paying almost tw…

What about driving in the snow? As a Canadian I can't see a Tesla being of any use in the winter, do people talk about that?

Supposedly it's pretty good in the snow. The Model X will have an all-wheel drive configuration too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS9uDJGi52A

Re: Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

#30

Post by ggjain »

dagss wrote: post #3

As a Norwegian this keep coming up in lunch conversations. I just bought an old used car from somebody buying a Tesla. What we come back to is the very high sale taxes on new cars in Norway (our "rule of thumb" is that cars are close to twice as expensive in Norway as in some other countries), but that most(/all?) of those taxes are waived for electric. So the alternative to getting, e.g., a Tesla is paying almost tw…

The argument is right. But consider rebates as support or venture fund by Govt. It promote sales - sales promote more production - more production promotes more private investment and better ideas.

The cycle has started and showing good signs.

I believe, if the same support is replicated across the world, it is very much possible we may witness electric automobiles a very viable alternative within next 10 years.

Post reply on HN