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List of Countries by Incarceration Rate

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Re: List of Countries by Incarceration Rate

#21

Post by fpp »

When you take out the distortion in some of the small countries where population numbers are low (even below 100K), you're looking at a list of totalitarian countries or countries were civil rights have deteriorated most in the last years (i.e. sorted by that).

High incarceration rates most often indicate that governments are only in power by threatening their people or spreading fear. On top of that you see a (most likely) strong effect / high prisoner numbers created by the "commercialization" of putting people into prison - countries where prisons are run as a business.

Guaranteed prisoner numbers or occupancy levels agreed in such contracts (another demonstration that business ethics don't exist anymore) strongly contribute to high numbers and IMHO also express that governments in countries were such contracts / approaches are allowed have completely lost touch to their population.

In developed countries there are two diametrically opposite examples to where governments are trending towards in the moment:

The UK currently considering to play catch-up with the US by also privatizing prison "services" and guaranteeing inmate numbers / occupancy levels.

On the other side Sweden that just recently closed 4 prisons because they were not needed anymore.

Re: List of Countries by Incarceration Rate

#22

Post by TelmoMenezes »

ibsathish wrote: post #14

Certainly looks like a biased list. Look at the bottom of the list and most of them are from Africa where you'd know the crime rates are high. May be, they are not 'punishable offenses' or they get let-off easily.

The data is objective -- surely not 100% accurate, like most data -- but only interpretations of it can be biased. There is obviously another important variable: the countries' level of development. Very poor countries have low incarceration rates because they don't have functional police and judicial systems.

But you can compare the USA to the rest of the western world: Europe, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. These countries share very similar societies, values, legal systems, forms of government and levels of economic development. With this simple filter the anomaly becomes clear and bias is harder to claim.

Re: List of Countries by Incarceration Rate

#23

Post by mcv »

deletes wrote: post #16
wozniacki wrote: post #12

Has anyone noticed that one of the most populous countries is near the bottom? Ranked 216 !!

Maybe their justice system doesn't work very well.

Or maybe it works very well.

There are different reasons why a country might be low on the list. Maybe they have little crime, maybe they fight crime without locking people up for long periods of time, or maybe they lack the resources to fight crime.

If a country is high on the list, it could be they have insanely high crime, but it could also mean that they punish much harsher than other countries, or crime is not the primary motivation to lock people up.

Re: List of Countries by Incarceration Rate

#25

Post by kalleboo »

fpp wrote: post #21

When you take out the distortion in some of the small countries where population numbers are low (even below 100K), you're looking at a list of totalitarian countries or countries were civil rights have deteriorated most in the last years (i.e. sorted by that). High incarceration rates most often indicate that governments are only in power by threatening their people or spreading fear. On top of that you see a (most…

Another thing to keep in mind is that the world is generally becoming a safer place - the violent crime statistics are trending downwards.

Re: List of Countries by Incarceration Rate

#27

Post by mattsfrey »

forktheif wrote: post #3

I like how the bottom of the list is so mixed. It seems to be extremely prosperous first world nations with so few social problems they get little crime, mixed with nations so poor, they can't afford police to catch criminals or prisons to keep them in.

That plus the factors of some localities that just kill people who commit bad enough crimes / allow people to walk on bribes routinely / vigilante justice etc

Re: List of Countries by Incarceration Rate

#28

Post by smcl »

t0 wrote: post #9

Interesting note about North Korea. >North Korea estimates 150,000 to 200,000 incarcerated, which roughly equals the US imprisonment rate at 600-800 people incarcerated per 100,000

Is that including the large gulag-style prison camps?

Re: List of Countries by Incarceration Rate

#29

Post by tzs »

fpp wrote: post #21

When you take out the distortion in some of the small countries where population numbers are low (even below 100K), you're looking at a list of totalitarian countries or countries were civil rights have deteriorated most in the last years (i.e. sorted by that). High incarceration rates most often indicate that governments are only in power by threatening their people or spreading fear. On top of that you see a (most…

> The UK currently considering to play catch-up with the US by also privatizing prison "services" and guaranteeing inmate numbers / occupancy levels

Privately run prisons in the US are not guaranteed inmate numbers or occupancy levels. That's a common misconception due to poor reporting on how the contracts are structured.

What they are actually guaranteed is a minimum payment. For instance, a contract might say that the prison company will take and maintain up to 100 prisoners, and the State will pay them each year the greater of $100k/prisoner or $9m.

This somehow gets reported as the contract guaranteeing that the State will keep a 90% occupancy rate in that prison.

Re: List of Countries by Incarceration Rate

#30

Post by matthewmacleod »

mcv wrote: post #19
Tarang wrote: post #13

This is a bit biased if one is to interpret the incarceration rate as a form of the amount of crime. Less developed countries look as if they have very little crime. The issue is the justice system cannot cope with the amount of crime or the crime is simply ignored due to corruption, bribery, etc.

It's not about crime, it's specifically about incarceration. The US locks people up for a very long time for very minor crimes (particularly if they're black). There's an industry that requires a steady stream of inmates, and they bribe politicians and judges to provide those inmates. The true crime doesn't come from the inmates, it comes from the people locking them up.

Look, I mean... the US justice system has obvious problems. Too many people going to prison, a racial bias, lack of rehabilitation... whatever. You'd be a fool to deny that.

But is this really down to some kind of prison-industrial complex that "bribe[s] politicians and judges to provide inmates"? That seems a little far-fetched.

Let's use Hanlon's razor here - isn't it far more likely that the US incarceration rate is an artefact of endemic inequality, poor education, and a constant desire for politicians to appear "tough on crime"? Do we really need to bring bribes into it?

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