French PM releases the G8 Open Data Charter Action Plan for France • Hacker News Board

Re: French PM releases the G8 Open Data Charter Action Plan for France

#21

Post by rhl » Fri, Nov 08, 2013, 7:39 PM UTC

mackwic wrote: post #18

rhl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our objective to support "hackers" and the startup ecosystem is mentioned under Commitment #4 (supporting open innovation in France and throughout the world).

I know that nicknames are here because of anonymity and so on, but can I ask you who are you to say that ? In the current context, I can hardly see any window for introducing disruptive innovation (I mean it, there is room for that) in France. Those who wants don't have money (mayors, univs, scientists), and those who have don't want it cause of so many reasons (employment would be the first). Stays the middle-size s…

Of course! My name is Romain Lacombe and I'm the head of innovation for the French Prime Minister's taskforce Etalab (data.gouv.fr) for Open Government Data, which was created in 2011 by the former government and was reinstated by the current one.

Whether or not there is room for disruptive innovation for France, only the future will tell -- and those who build it. :)

All I can say is that we're hard at work to make the most of the transformative power of open data and direct collaboration with hackers and startups, and this plan is a significant commitment from our government which I wanted to share with the HN community for constructive feedback.

(PS for what it's worth: I'm an entrepreneur myself, launched a venture-backed startup in the Valley in 2008-2010 myself which was later acquired.)

Re: French PM releases the G8 Open Data Charter Action Plan for France

#22

Post by weddpros » Fri, Nov 08, 2013, 9:31 PM UTC

rhl wrote: post #15

weddpros wrote: post #5

That's pure bs: www.data.gouv.fr is full of XLS and DOC documents. No raw data, only aggregated statistics. Useless. Documents and data are not the same... I'm french, and NOT proud of it

Hi Weddpros -- thanks for the feedback. As it turns out, we agree with you. That's why we've been working on a complete overhaul of http://data.gouv.fr to be soft-launched soon, and we think you'll like it! If you've followed http://etalab.gouv.fr (mostly in French, sorry), you may have heard we launched an open and collaborative re-design process in the spring and summer, which lead to more than 60 substantial contr…

is there a hidden meaning ?

http://imgur.com/34ui71g

Re: French PM releases the G8 Open Data Charter Action Plan for France

#23

Post by VeejayRampay » Fri, Nov 08, 2013, 11:39 PM UTC

weddpros wrote: post #5

That's pure bs: www.data.gouv.fr is full of XLS and DOC documents. No raw data, only aggregated statistics. Useless. Documents and data are not the same... I'm french, and NOT proud of it

I'm French as well and not really proud of the way you're phrasing your disapproval. There's a middle ground between sheepishly turning a blind eye and calling bullshit.

Just because it's not done by the book all the way doesn't we shouldn't salute the effort.

Re: French PM releases the G8 Open Data Charter Action Plan for France

#24

Post by weddpros » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:12 AM UTC

VeejayRampay wrote: post #23

weddpros wrote: post #5

That's pure bs: www.data.gouv.fr is full of XLS and DOC documents. No raw data, only aggregated statistics. Useless. Documents and data are not the same... I'm french, and NOT proud of it

I'm French as well and not really proud of the way you're phrasing your disapproval. There's a middle ground between sheepishly turning a blind eye and calling bullshit. Just because it's not done by the book all the way doesn't we shouldn't salute the effort.

Sorry if I hurt you. I deeply regret that the government made such an announcement with "nothing" to show.

Just imagine a startup making such an announcement on HN, to show only XLS documents, and calling it OpenData... Well, that's just what it looked like when that post made it to the front page of HN.

Recently, the government proudly announced an "OpenData" website about drugs... but it proved to be a website where documentation about drugs could be read online. It existed YEARS before, and it doesn't become OpenData just because it's hosted by the gov! No raw data, no API: there will be no app which allows you to scan barcodes and tell you about conflicts between drugs, no app to prevent adverse effects depending on you health condition. No app I can imagine, no app you can imagine. They just wasted our money for no added benefit.

I think they (France) do not understand what OpenData is.

Data does not become OpenData just because it's accessible on the net. It's OpenData if you can build something with it.

Think "source code in PDF format on GitHub" and you should agree that OpenSource and OpenData must be more than simply available online.

Re: French PM releases the G8 Open Data Charter Action Plan for France

#25

Post by weddpros » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 10:39 AM UTC

weddpros wrote: post #22

rhl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Weddpros -- thanks for the feedback. As it turns out, we agree with you. That's why we've been working on a complete overhaul of http://data.gouv.fr to be soft-launched soon, and we think you'll like it! If you've followed http://etalab.gouv.fr (mostly in French, sorry), you may have heard we launched an open and collaborative re-design process in the spring and summer, which lead to more than 60 substantial contr…

is there a hidden meaning ? http://imgur.com/34ui71g

It was a temporary bug, your github is back online.

Building on the OpenSource CKAN project is a good thing. Similarly, you should thrive to help people build on OpenData.

What really concerns me is the actual data that's made available, more than the technology used to serve it.

For the time being, it looks more like electronic document management than OpenData to me. The philosophy behind OpenData is not just "let's put office documents online", it should be more "let's see what they'll do with our data". Otherwise, where's the innovation? (except for the ideology)

Re: French PM releases the G8 Open Data Charter Action Plan for France

#26

Post by rhl » Mon, Nov 11, 2013, 10:28 PM UTC

weddpros wrote: post #25

weddpros wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there a hidden meaning ? http://imgur.com/34ui71g

It was a temporary bug, your github is back online. Building on the OpenSource CKAN project is a good thing. Similarly, you should thrive to help people build on OpenData. What really concerns me is the actual data that's made available, more than the technology used to serve it. For the time being, it looks more like electronic document management than OpenData to me. The philosophy behind OpenData is not just "let'…

Completely agree with the "let's see what they'll do with our data" philosophy!

The three stated objectives of France's open data policy are: 1. to make government more transparent and accountable, 2. to improve public policies and public service delivery, and 3. to enable entrepreneurs and civic innovators to develop create new services based on this data.

That's why we've brought together more than 30 key players in the French innovation ecosystem (VCs, angels, research institutions but also media, larger French corporations, Google, Microsoft etc.) and organized a series data-driven startup contests called DataConnexions.

You can check the best projects from the first 3 editions (from early 2012 onwards): http://www.etalab.gouv.fr/recherche/?query=dataconnexions

My personal favorite is an app developed jointly with the Greater Paris transport authority that uses context-based modeling to predict train occupancy levels at each time of the day, in real-time, taking into account any perturbation on the network and live feedback from users: http://tranquilien.com