Maybe I'm missing something, but if they want to gather signatures - why not add a link to the petition so people can actually sign?
Here is the link: http://sign.basicincome2013.eu
This basic income crowdfunding campaign reached its goal in less than 48 hours
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Re: This basic income crowdfunding campaign reached its goal in less than 48 hours
#22"Unconditional basic income is a new form of total social security for all citizens. It’s an unconditional monthly sum, paid out to by the government to every citizen - rich or poor, old or young, employed or unemployed." Well, they should have written "Unconditional basic income is a new form of total social security for all citizens. It’s an unconditional monthly sum, taken from taxpayers and paid out to every citi…
That's equivalent, everyone knows government gets its money from taxpayers.
Re: This basic income crowdfunding campaign reached its goal in less than 48 hours
#23People voting themselves bread. I'm sure this will turn out well.
Re: This basic income crowdfunding campaign reached its goal in less than 48 hours
#24I'd not heard of the basic income concept until now so my reaction might be naive, but what benefit could possibly justify the collection and redistribution of a fixed amount of cash to everyone , regardless of their situation? For example, if 1 person in 10 is thirsty, what benefit derives from giving water to all 10 versus the 1 - isn't that simply a wasteful distribution of resources? Even in the extreme case wher…
In quite a lot of Europe we have social support schemes that are supposed the same net effect.
Except if you are unemployed for more than X. Or if you have more than a minimal wage on your bank account. Or.. Or.. Or..
All these exceptions are meant to cut social support from people who are not entitled to it. While in reality they usually hurt people who have no means to be really productive.
Quite a lot of resources are spent on edge cases, which decreases efficiency and transparency. Thus making these schemes ineffective for what they were designed to do.
I think that basic income is an awesome idea and should be at least tried so we can see if it works out in practice. Especially because we can afford it.
Re: This basic income crowdfunding campaign reached its goal in less than 48 hours
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Combined with some progressive taxation this works out to be massively more efficient and helpful than most other forms of welfare. Replace foodstamps/subsidized housing/unemployment-insurance/myriad-of-other-safety-net-programs with a basic guaranteed income and everyone is better off. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income .
The problem is that not everybody's costs are the same. A disabled person may have much higher living costs due to needing additional care and special equipment to help them, they also have less chance of gaining employment in order to increase that income. Also consider costs of living/housing etc. For example an unemployed programmer might be better off staying somewhere like SF where costs are higher because they…
"The risk would be that you ended up with low cost of living slum areas where the unemployed would congregate , separate from the productive economy."
But in this case, they would be able to offer each other money for providing each other services. Congregations of people would inherently be able to realize some demand, which is not presently the case (or that demand is filtered through bureaucrats).
Re: This basic income crowdfunding campaign reached its goal in less than 48 hours
#26"Unconditional basic income is a new form of total social security for all citizens. It’s an unconditional monthly sum, paid out to by the government to every citizen - rich or poor, old or young, employed or unemployed." Well, they should have written "Unconditional basic income is a new form of total social security for all citizens. It’s an unconditional monthly sum, taken from taxpayers and paid out to every citi…
Combined with some progressive taxation this works out to be massively more efficient and helpful than most other forms of welfare. Replace foodstamps/subsidized housing/unemployment-insurance/myriad-of-other-safety-net-programs with a basic guaranteed income and everyone is better off. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income .
>Combined with some progressive taxation this works out to be massively more efficient and helpful than most other forms of welfare.
Is this empirically proven somewhere? Or is that what its proponents are saying? Forgive me if I'm a little cynical when someone tells me an idea they support is a much better form of welfare than what we currently have but doesn't back it up with proof.
Re: This basic income crowdfunding campaign reached its goal in less than 48 hours
#27"Unconditional basic income is a new form of total social security for all citizens. It’s an unconditional monthly sum, paid out to by the government to every citizen - rich or poor, old or young, employed or unemployed." Well, they should have written "Unconditional basic income is a new form of total social security for all citizens. It’s an unconditional monthly sum, taken from taxpayers and paid out to every citi…
A healthy and minimally secure citizenry can be a public good just as much as roads and armies, which are also paid by taxes.
I want this.
Re: This basic income crowdfunding campaign reached its goal in less than 48 hours
#28I will never support this idea. This is kind of thinking is extremely nationalistic: I am entitled to free money because I was born in XYZ. On top of this, this idea has very weak economics fundamentals, there is no prove that growth comes from redistributing wealth. There is plenty of prove growth comes from innovation and innovation comes from people actually working. We are in denial. The whole Europe is in denial…
"this idea has very weak economics fundamentals"
I'll take Milton Friedman's word on that over yours.
Re: This basic income crowdfunding campaign reached its goal in less than 48 hours
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
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And let's not forget how racist we (Europe) become when it comes to immigration from these poor countries. I have a proposal, let's open the gates of Europe to everybody that doesn't have a criminal record.
I admire your idealism. However you forget that poor countries have high levels of corruption which makes any kinds of records they keep dubious at best.
Poor countries will have to commit on working out their issues on their own. We must help them, but there is no way we can do it for them.
On a positive note, global trends show that poverty is constantly decreasing and that equality is rising. Slowly but steadily.
Re: This basic income crowdfunding campaign reached its goal in less than 48 hours
#30I'd not heard of the basic income concept until now so my reaction might be naive, but what benefit could possibly justify the collection and redistribution of a fixed amount of cash to everyone , regardless of their situation? For example, if 1 person in 10 is thirsty, what benefit derives from giving water to all 10 versus the 1 - isn't that simply a wasteful distribution of resources? Even in the extreme case wher…
I think the hope is that it is sort of like digging a well.