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An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

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Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#21

Post by lake99 »

_bfhp wrote: post #9

The following quote is relevant here: “WOULD ANY SANE PERSON think dumpster diving would have stopped Hitler, or that composting would have ended slavery or brought about the eight-hour workday, or that chopping wood and carrying water would have gotten people out of Tsarist prisons, or that dancing naked around a fire would have helped put in place the Voting Rights Act of 1957 or the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Then…

When we're talking about movements like Anonymous, we are talking about a group of people who are quite vocal about their stances. These guys definitely carry considerable clout. That's how the Million Mask March came about, for example. The "personal change" that Derrick Jensen's article talks about just not relevant here.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#22

Post by ch215 »

Defending the Press is almost universally unpopular. However, I think there's a important distinction to be made here. Namely that Martha Gill's piece is comment and not news. Hence it's filed under 'blogs'. Opinion is free to be responsible or irresponsible, informed or misinformed, constructive or destructive but, by definition, it cannot be true or false. I don't see anything wrong with someone expressing an honestly held view based on photographs. It seems hundreds of Anonymous supporters have done exactly that beneath the column.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#23

Post by raverbashing »

_bfhp wrote: post #9

The following quote is relevant here: “WOULD ANY SANE PERSON think dumpster diving would have stopped Hitler, or that composting would have ended slavery or brought about the eight-hour workday, or that chopping wood and carrying water would have gotten people out of Tsarist prisons, or that dancing naked around a fire would have helped put in place the Voting Rights Act of 1957 or the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Then…

"wah wah wah corporations are bad, growth is bad"

Corporations and economic growth are directly responsible for the possibility that this discussion is happening: the internet, cheap and powerful computers, etc

Or even better: https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/391943773963304960

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#24

Post by alextingle »

KyeRussell wrote: post #11

Can we please stop with all this Anonymous BS? The point of the 'movement' is that it's decentralised. 'Anonymous' can't write 'open letters'. This is just pathetic.

Well, "Anonymous" didn't write that letter. Some specific activist wrote it, and has posted it under the Anonymous "brand". If the wider movement likes it (and they should because it's well written and spot on target) then they will promote it and adopt it as theirs.

We don't know who wrote the piece. The author is anonymous, but their words will probably reach a far, far wider audience than if they had published under their own name.

That's the way the movement works. It is decentralised. I'm sorry that you think it's pathetic.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#25

Post by alextingle »

lake99 wrote: post #21
_bfhp wrote: post #9

The following quote is relevant here: “WOULD ANY SANE PERSON think dumpster diving would have stopped Hitler, or that composting would have ended slavery or brought about the eight-hour workday, or that chopping wood and carrying water would have gotten people out of Tsarist prisons, or that dancing naked around a fire would have helped put in place the Voting Rights Act of 1957 or the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Then…

When we're talking about movements like Anonymous, we are talking about a group of people who are quite vocal about their stances. These guys definitely carry considerable clout. That's how the Million Mask March came about, for example. The "personal change" that Derrick Jensen's article talks about just not relevant here.

I think that was his point.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#26

Post by raverbashing »

Ygg2 wrote: post #12
aluhut wrote: post #5

If I would be part of them, I would create a 3D-printer model of the mask and share that all over so people can organise their own distribution...

Or you know, papercraft the suckers, its not like there aren't papercraft versions of it. My roommate made me one.

Thanks, this gave me a smile

People think "oh let's build a startup for 3d-printing model this on the cloud, blah blah blah"

Where anyone with modest skills can build this using scissors, some cardboard, or Papier-Maché or some other technique.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#27

Post by socillion »

droidist2 wrote: post #15

People are too in love with the idea of seeing others get "nailed" for being hypocrites. All you have to do is say something that sounds vaguely clever or ironic in a snarky manner and people go "Ooooh, snap" even if it really makes not much sense. For instance: "Julian Assange of Wikileaks wants to protect his own privacy." "Ooooh, snap."

Accusations of hypocrisy are a form of ad hominem, so I agree it's amusing that so many people think they are good arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#28

Post by atmosx »

raverbashing wrote: post #23
_bfhp wrote: post #9

The following quote is relevant here: “WOULD ANY SANE PERSON think dumpster diving would have stopped Hitler, or that composting would have ended slavery or brought about the eight-hour workday, or that chopping wood and carrying water would have gotten people out of Tsarist prisons, or that dancing naked around a fire would have helped put in place the Voting Rights Act of 1957 or the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Then…

"wah wah wah corporations are bad, growth is bad" Corporations and economic growth are directly responsible for the possibility that this discussion is happening: the internet, cheap and powerful computers, etc Or even better: https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/391943773963304960

Your comment reminds me of this awesome article by the WSJ[1]. The funny thing is that, it's so out of reality that I wouldn't even bother arguing.

See the miners filled lawsuits against the company, because weren't for capitalism their life and working conditions would have avoided a life-threatening situation.

But then again depends what you wanna do: Find the truth or find evidence - even risking ridicule - to support your beliefs.

[1] http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405274870367360...

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#29

Post by anigbrowl »

nonchalance wrote: post #3

Are the Guardian, the Telegraph and the New Statesman notable for their fair and balanced journalism (or are they the fox news of europe)?

A famous quote from the satirical political TV comedy Yes, Minister sums up the British press fairly well. Amusingly, one of the characters is named Jim Hacker.

Hacker: Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers: the Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country; The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country; The Times is read by people who actually do run the country; the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country; the Financial Times is read by people who own the country; The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country; and The Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.

Sir Humphrey: Prime Minister, what about the people who read The Sun?

Bernard: Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.

(The Mirror is a leftish tabloid, the Sun a rightist tabloid, both are strident and stupid. The Guardian is a lefty broadsheet, very 'liberal media' by American standards. The Times is center-right, the Daily Mail is middle-class outrage and celebrity gossip (and outrage about our culture of celebrity gossip). The Financial Times is like the WSJ without the axe-grinding editorials; the Morning Star is now defunct but used to be a mouthpiece for the USSR communist party. The Telegraph, sometimes referred to as the Torygraph for its unflinching support of the Tory party, is basically a serious newspaper for people who are convinced the country has gone to the dogs, global warming is nefarious plot, and so on. There's also the Independent, which didn't appear until some years later, which can best be summed up as 'worthy but boring.')

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#30

Post by VikingCoder »

raverbashing wrote: post #23
_bfhp wrote: post #9

The following quote is relevant here: “WOULD ANY SANE PERSON think dumpster diving would have stopped Hitler, or that composting would have ended slavery or brought about the eight-hour workday, or that chopping wood and carrying water would have gotten people out of Tsarist prisons, or that dancing naked around a fire would have helped put in place the Voting Rights Act of 1957 or the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Then…

"wah wah wah corporations are bad, growth is bad" Corporations and economic growth are directly responsible for the possibility that this discussion is happening: the internet, cheap and powerful computers, etc Or even better: https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/391943773963304960

"wah wah wah monarchy is bad, empire is bad"

The British government is directly responsible for the possibility that this discussion of "taxation without representation" is happening; colonization, trade, etc.

Sometimes when you stand on the shoulders of giants, you realize that the old ways were lousy. America as it is today wouldn't exist without slavery and Native American genocide.

I'm not comparing Capitalism to Genocide, but I am saying the form of argument you used is ridiculous, because I can use the same argument to defend awful things.

If you stop and listen for one minute, people like me are saying, "Maybe the current system is TOO excessive, and should be reigned in, in some ways." We think laws should help fight the excesses of unchecked capitalism.

We're not proposing the "share everything" that Kasparov ridicules, and posing our argument that way is an absurd straw man.

That said, I don't represent a united front of people who believe identically to me, but your argument is so absurd that I think it might practically be targeted at only a tiny minority of people currently saying anything negative about corporations and our current means of economic growth.

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