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Elaine Wherry: Why I Now Believe the Glass Ceiling Is Real

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Re: Elaine Wherry: Why I Now Believe the Glass Ceiling Is Real

#21
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because her coach said that was the most likely explanation, and her coach represents an informed distanced opinion with expertise in the area.

The coach (according to the author) made that call based on her assumptions about the hire based on his gender, age and geographical origin. That's not informed personal opinion, it's exactly the kind of discrimination which the author is complaining about.

Elaine Wherry lives in Bay Area. Is gender discrimination a huge common problem there?

All she has is a guy refusing a job offer. After that she talks to some radical feminist who decided it was because of her gender, and she, for some strange reason, accepts that explanation as truth and shifts all the blame to the guy.

WTF?

Re: Elaine Wherry: Why I Now Believe the Glass Ceiling Is Real

#22
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an anecdote, not a court case. The author and her coach made their best guess based on their judgement of the situation. Obviously they are both privy to a lot of information that isn't in the article (and would be extremely hard to express). The author got to experience conversations with the person in question, and so probably had a lot of information that was expressed through manner and tone. The coach knew…

It's not a court case, but she's trying to make a serious assertion (gender discrimination against her leading to serious career implications), and if that's to be taken seriously she needs to present the evidence to support it. My choice of which to believe is based on the fact that the article presents some evidence that the first scenario is true: 1. The hire actually gave the reason as not feeling comfortable wit…

The article isn't intended to name and shame a particular individual. It's meant to warn women about how gender discrimination can affect their career even if they are very careful to work in a meritocratic team of people who treat them fairly. The claim of the article isn't "this man was sexist" - we have no idea who this man was, and we don't get anything close to the full story. The main point of the article is "this is a thing that happens". I don't think that claim requires extraordinary evidence. It's just an attempt to bring attention to a plausible mechanism by which gender discrimination can negatively affect women, which they might not have been aware of otherwise.

Given that, I don't think we are in a situation where we should bias in favour of innocent until proven guilty. We can just make our own best guess based on what we know.

Your evidence 2 and 3 are weak. Being in a high pressure job often means being in a position where you (and the company) can't afford a big disaster. Lots of people are hard on themselves, it doesn't mean she was on shaky ground because of her competence (her colleagues wanted her around for another year at least). She insisted on leaving to make this guy happy because his stated reason for rejecting the job was her. Her colleagues wanted the guy to join them and they didn't have any reason to refuse her resignation. That doesn't shed any light on why the man was unhappy with her in the first place.

The guy didn't give convincing examples or well thought out reasons, he seems to have just made a guess that she was incompetent. You think his guess is unbiased and the coach and the author's guesses are biased. Even though it is the coach's job to make objective judgements about these things. In this scenario the man, the author and the coach all make judgements given information we are not privy to. Each of them has their own biases, their own agendas. I think the man's inability to explain his dislike when pressed, and the fact that the coach is supposed to provide negative criticism indicates that the coach's judgement is most likely correct.

Re: Elaine Wherry: Why I Now Believe the Glass Ceiling Is Real

#23
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because her coach said that was the most likely explanation, and her coach represents an informed distanced opinion with expertise in the area.

The coach (according to the author) made that call based on her assumptions about the hire based on his gender, age and geographical origin. That's not informed personal opinion, it's exactly the kind of discrimination which the author is complaining about.

a) There is such a thing as cultural awareness. It is not the same as discrimination. If you travel a bit you find that there are actual differences between cultures. If you use those differences as justification to treat individuals unfairly then that is discrimination. (If you use false stereotypes as justification to treat individuals unfairly then that is also discrimination.) Discrimination is about how you treat individuals, not about being unaware of general trends. In this case, since the author's interaction with this individual is in the past, neither she nor her coach is discriminating.

b) The coach, according to the author, made that call after she recounted the story. Presumably in a lot of detail, and after numerous other coaching sessions in which her coach would have built up a detailed picture of how she worked and where her weaknesses lay.

Re: Elaine Wherry: Why I Now Believe the Glass Ceiling Is Real

#24
Is it just me or is there a gaping logical hole in this story.

The guy who supposedly refused to work for her because of her gender must have realized that she is a woman long before signing the contract. Ie - if he really had problem reporting to a woman, why go through the process if the information was readily available that it wasn't for him?

Occam's razor (as opposed to her coach) would posit that certain events changed his mind, as per his explanation to her.

However - the phenomenon that is real is her uncertainty as to whether her gender was a factor. Ie - it would not occur to a man to question that. Unfortunately that's life.

Re: Elaine Wherry: Why I Now Believe the Glass Ceiling Is Real

#26
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logical skips can do a lot.

I think there's a difference between a logical skip and a judgement call based on a personal experience of a situation.

OK, build us a logical bridge between the situation and "it happened because he doesn't like women". Don't forget the evidence for every logical leap.
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