Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up • Hacker News Board

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#21

Post by tptacek » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:26 PM UTC

There's a valid point in here about the way the structure of the Thiel program, with its strain of radical individualism, might blind new entrepreneurs to the idea that most of them shouldn't be CEOs. I think more entrepreneurs should try to grok this idea. Even people who are "born leaders" don't necessarily belong in the CEO role, because CEOs need to be more than leaders. They often also need to be moderating influences, level-headed, execution-focused, and accountable. I've been in startups since I was 18 years old, and have started multiple companies, and would not hire me as a CEO.

Unfortunately, the article makes that point by inflating the importance of management theory and by suggesting that college is somewhere you go to pick up a trade. So, someone else should try to write the good article that makes the CEO point.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#22

Post by timr » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:30 PM UTC

lincolnq wrote: post #19

colinbartlett wrote: post #4

"Management is a tremendously undervalued skill on the tech startup scene, and that single fact contributes, I believe, to the failure of more companies than any other factor." Truth.

Most companies fail without hiring a single non-founder! How can management be a factor in these failures? I would suspect that poor management is a contributor to high-profile failures. But only a minor factor for startups in general. Not making something people want, and giving up too early, are far more critical problems for early-stage companies than mismanagement, and there are a lot more early-stage companies t…

"Most companies fail without hiring a single non-founder! How can management be a factor in these failures?"

Most young startups fail because of founder disputes. Working closely with another person is a skill gained with time and experience, and has a lot in common with management.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#23

Post by hobs » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:34 PM UTC

kippn_it_real wrote: post #20

There seems to be a consensus here that all big corporations are inept and the all that you can learn from them is what not to do. Only ~5% of startups are successful while 100% of big corporations were at one point. If you can't learn anything from Big Corp you aren't trying.

Yeah, I encourage people to go work for one for a year or two to learn all the stupid things they do and the ways they are vulnerable. Also to understand why you should love what you are doing now.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#24

Post by kyzyl » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:35 PM UTC

seiji wrote: post #16

rpedela wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

If you can't learn how to manage a dog, what hope do you have in managing multiple divergent human personalities?

Sorry but that's a pretty outlandish statement. dogs may occasionally act like people, and they may require management, but they are not people. It doesn't follow that if you can't/haven't managed dogs you have no hope with people. I've done both and it's a different ball game.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#25

Post by polarix » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:42 PM UTC

In some sense, though, most of these situations do see the founders learning management on someone else's dime.

It's just a segmented capital super-structure, rather than a traditional corporate system.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#26

Post by seiji » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:42 PM UTC

rpedela wrote: post #17

seiji wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't learn how to manage a dog, what hope do you have in managing multiple divergent human personalities?

I am allergic to dogs so never learned how to take care of one. I seem able to manage others effectively and of course always more to learn. Honestly, a pretty odd choice for a book. If you really believe that book is a prerequisite, wouldn't it be better for that person to just get a dog?

If you "just get a dog," are you assuming everybody has innate knowledge on how to raise and train a dog?

It takes—looping back to the main point here—education to know the best ways to take care of a dog. Sure, you can just practice by trial and error for a while, or you could use knowledge from people who have done The Right Thing for years and get ahead of many common mistakes you would have made out of "intuition."

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#27

Post by tobyjsullivan » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:43 PM UTC

I appreciate the article and the point of view but I have to disagree completely with his recommendation that you spend your years working for someone else before you launch your own business.

He talks about working for a company after finishing college to learn about how they operate and do business. You know what I learned in the five years after college I worked for a company as a dev? A whole lot about software development. Nothing about hiring (beyond what I gleaned while interviewing), basics of management and nothing about marketing or sales. You know what I learned in the first few months of trying and failing to launch a business? A heck of a lot about everything, including a lot more about software development.

Working in my trade for a few years out of school made me very good at what I do but it certainly did not make me a very good entrepreneur.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#28

Post by jmduke » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:44 PM UTC

ebiester wrote: post #7

...Says the man who went to school when the opportunity cost wasn't a decade in debt (at the very least). If you succeed, then you didn't need school. If you fail, then you can always go back to school afterwards. I don't see the downside of the Thiel fellowship, at least on its surface.

...Says the man who went to school when the opportunity cost wasn't a decade in debt (at the very least).

I got a great college education and graduated with a level of debt that I paid off in less than a year, through a mix of need-based grants, merit-based scholarships, working 15 hrs/wk, and a lower overall tuition because it was a public school. (There's also the growing trend of 2&2 programs, which in retrospect seems like an even better choice.)

I'm not necessarily arguing that the value of college outweighs its costs (for me, though, it certainly did), but to say that the opportunity cost is at least a decade in debt is invalid.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#29

Post by seiji » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:46 PM UTC

kyzyl wrote: post #24

seiji wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't learn how to manage a dog, what hope do you have in managing multiple divergent human personalities?

Sorry but that's a pretty outlandish statement. dogs may occasionally act like people, and they may require management, but they are not people. It doesn't follow that if you can't/haven't managed dogs you have no hope with people. I've done both and it's a different ball game.

I've worked under multiple managers who: gave no positive feedback, set no expectations, and provided no treats.

That's really the minimum you should do with dogs or people.

Re: Student Entrepreneurs: If Peter Thiel Calls, Hang Up

#30

Post by DanielBMarkham » Sun, Oct 06, 2013, 6:49 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #21

There's a valid point in here about the way the structure of the Thiel program, with its strain of radical individualism, might blind new entrepreneurs to the idea that most of them shouldn't be CEOs. I think more entrepreneurs should try to grok this idea. Even people who are "born leaders" don't necessarily belong in the CEO role, because CEOs need to be more than leaders. They often also need to be moderating infl…

Yes, this would be a really good article if it made a completely different point.