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Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

sfgate.com

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Re: Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

#21

Post by ferdo »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #19
noir_lord wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't use the proceeds of crime to fund your defense. If he can't show income then he gets a public defender. Also this is a federal defender and my understanding (I'm a Brit watching from afar) is they are like our QC's (Queens Counsel - essentially very good and experienced legal professionals) rather than the stereotypical "plead to everything and go to lunch" public defenders.

>You can't use the proceeds of crime to fund your defense. Alleged crime, but you're right. In this country, the gov't can seize your assets and deprive you of them prior to proving that you are a criminal, or that the assets have any relation to criminal conduct.

That trick worked even during the Inquisition. The State never changes tactics.

Re: Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

#22

Post by nooneelse »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #12

"Goodnight Wesley, I'll probably convict you in the morning." So the whole extortion / murder-for-hire angle is interesting. I'm wondering how they jump over the reasonable doubt hurdle with anonymous accounts. That said, someone got access to the 26K+ bitcoins that SR "had" so if nothing else the cops seized and shut down the correct hardware. I'm not sure how to feel about Ross, idealistic dreamer or drug dealer in…

So perhaps someone should enable a layer of plausible deniability in the form of a program which makes it look like your machine(s) has been compromised and controlled for a long time now.

Re: Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

#23

Post by revelation »

tptacek wrote: post #17
MichaelGG wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can't use the proceeds of crime to fund your defense. Alleged crime. I thought the US had some presumption of innocence or something.

The assets you presume him to have are the proceeds of a massive online narcotics market. Or is there some other source of income you're saying were seized?

Of course the source of the funds may be obvious. That doesn't mean we should short out the usual due process, the same reason we have the "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine.

Re: Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

#24

Post by mikeryan »

jpmattia wrote: post #18
noir_lord wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't use the proceeds of crime to fund your defense. If he can't show income then he gets a public defender. Also this is a federal defender and my understanding (I'm a Brit watching from afar) is they are like our QC's (Queens Counsel - essentially very good and experienced legal professionals) rather than the stereotypical "plead to everything and go to lunch" public defenders.

> You can't use the proceeds of crime to fund your defense. And how is it determined (beyond a reasonable doubt, with a vigorous defense) that you committed a crime to yield those proceeds?

Tax returns - or the lack thereof. There's almost no way in the US to make more than about 10k without it being traceable.

Also I can totally be wrong about this its one of those "I' think I heard this a few times" but I think this is one of those things where the burden of proof ends up more on the side of the accused then on the gov't.

Re: Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

#25

Post by geetee »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #3

>Ulbricht did not enter a plea. But his public defender,... Looks like the Federales did seize his assets. He may be about to have a bad time.

More likely simply hasn't assembled a legal team yet. I'm going to guess he wasn't keeping one on retainer.

Re: Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

#26

Post by jessaustin »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #3

>Ulbricht did not enter a plea. But his public defender,... Looks like the Federales did seize his assets. He may be about to have a bad time.

Alternatively, he might not have much money for his defense, because he's not actually a drug kingpin!

Re: Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

#27

Post by mikeryan »

geetee wrote: post #25
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #3

>Ulbricht did not enter a plea. But his public defender,... Looks like the Federales did seize his assets. He may be about to have a bad time.

More likely simply hasn't assembled a legal team yet. I'm going to guess he wasn't keeping one on retainer.

Better call Saul.

Re: Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

#28

Post by ferdo »

mikeryan wrote: post #24
jpmattia wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't use the proceeds of crime to fund your defense. And how is it determined (beyond a reasonable doubt, with a vigorous defense) that you committed a crime to yield those proceeds?

Tax returns - or the lack thereof. There's almost no way in the US to make more than about 10k without it being traceable. Also I can totally be wrong about this its one of those "I' think I heard this a few times" but I think this is one of those things where the burden of proof ends up more on the side of the accused then on the gov't.

> the burden of proof ends up more on the side of the accused then on the gov't.

That's how tyrannies operate.

Re: Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

#29

Post by jessaustin »

Prosecutors said they expect to transfer Ulbricht to the East Coast, where he faces a criminal complaint filed in New York and a grand jury indictment handed down in Maryland.

If they had arrested someone in New York, the complaint would have been filed in Texas and the grand jury would be impaneled in San Francisco.

Re: Alleged Silk Road drug kingpin denies charges

#30

Post by wozniacki »

noir_lord wrote: post #7
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #3

>Ulbricht did not enter a plea. But his public defender,... Looks like the Federales did seize his assets. He may be about to have a bad time.

You can't use the proceeds of crime to fund your defense. If he can't show income then he gets a public defender. Also this is a federal defender and my understanding (I'm a Brit watching from afar) is they are like our QC's (Queens Counsel - essentially very good and experienced legal professionals) rather than the stereotypical "plead to everything and go to lunch" public defenders.

Could you prepay your attorney(s) / legal team in the form of retainers like they (seem to) do in the television show "The Wire"?

The cost of any future trial could be anticipated ahead of time and paid upfront by the perpetrating party. Right?

That way there is no burden on the accused, to prove how the cost of the trial will be borne. Right?

The state (DA) must know that there is certainly no way "Stringer Bell" or "Avon Barksdale" can afford a high priced lawyer (Maurice Levy) from the proceeds of a legitimate yet small-time printing business - an obvious front operation for their drug dealing syndicate, which constituted the lion-share of their earnings.

Right?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stringer_Bell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avon_Barksdale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Levy_(The_Wire)

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