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Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

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Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#21

I've never heard of this site before, but looking at their page 'How it works', it seems clear it me it's a shoe-of-the-month club, and works similar to things like Disney Movie club, Harry and David Fruit of the month club, or one of various Book Clubs. The only scummy part would be if they still charge $39.99/month if you don't cancel / skip / select a shoe, without sending you anything. Compare to Disney Movie of…

They have engineered their checkout page to be less deceptive. This is their previous page:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4592827

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#22
Their "how it works" page explains this, with far fewer than "2500 words", though it could be clearer.

http://www.justfab.com/how-justfab-works.htm

They have 2 million likes on Facebook. Were all these users scammed?

The "monthly subscription" has recently been a hot e-commerce category. Other sites with a similar model are shoedazzle.com, fabkids.com, musthave.popsugar.com and so on. See: http://www.quora.com/E-Commerce/What-are-the-most-interestin...

So a question is, what's the tradeoff between transparency & making it easy for the customer to cancel at any time, versus locking them in? Lots of businesses make money off of customer inertia where the easy path is to keep paying. Netflix, Tivo, your cable service, phone service, could all plausibly have much worse retention rates if they actively asked you each month if you want to continue paying. Additionally, my cable company certainly isn't going to tell me when my one-year promotional rate is expired and my rate suddenly doubles. Does that make cable service a scam?

Beyond that, you are labeling the business a "scam" because you assert they are hiding the recurring payments from their users. Maybe so, but it would help to have data, rather than "wondering" how many users were unaware of the payments. When they become aware, does the company refund their money? Do they a/b test their signup process to optimize signups versus the later cancellation rate? I would certainly expect they do, and that they have a pretty specific idea of what their dissatistfied customer rate is, what the acceptable (non-zero) rate is for them, and how to avoid skyrocketing it while increasing their signups.

It's not a pretty business on those terms, but it's real, and plays on human behavior, both positive -- people like to receive new stuff in the mail every month, it's an addictive cycle for many -- and negative -- people sign up for stuff online without reading the fine print, or bothering to check their credit card statements.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#23
I'm the Series A investor in this company.

We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusually high for a subscription service.

I obviously cannot speak to your girlfriend's experience. With nearly a million subscribers, there are certainly people with bad experiences -- same is true with any service. Netflix is great but I am sure there are a number of people who have had a bad experience.

I would encourage the HackerNews community to consider the opposite: if we assume the investors in this business do perform due diligence, is there another possible explanation? Is it possible that this case is not representative of the average case?

But hey, we don't have to be he-said-she-said here, anyone can just go to the site and verify if this claim is true. In essence, the claim is: "The site tricked me. I went to buy a single pair of shoes, and in doing so, they actually started taxing my credit card every month, and no one warned me."

Folks are right to be skeptical -- a lot of businesses have done this, tried to hide the fact there would be future charges. Does JustFab?

I just went to the site -- you can do this -- picked a random pair of boots and put them in my shopping cart. I then clicked checkout, and here is what that page looked like:

http://imagesup.net/?di=15138026329215

"I wonder how much of this $100 million are from people like my girlfriend who simply didn't read their entire 2,500 words Terms of Service and were unaware that they were charged $39.95 a month for nothing" -- Seriously, please look at the link above to the checkout flow and tell me that's how you see it, that you have to read the 2,500 word TOS to figure out that this is the case.

Seems pretty clear to me. You can get the boots for $39 if you join the VIP program. "With this purchase, you will be activating your VIP membership"

Under "How VIP Membership Works", it explains: " If you do not take action between the 1st and the 5th of the month, you will be charged $39.95 for a member credit on the 6th. Each credit can be redeemed for 1 JustFab item, so use it to shop later!"

It's in plain English, and in the same font size as everything else on the page. Over 800,000 people can manage their subscription account every month without racking up credits. I'm sorry it didn't work for your girlfriend, and I recognize she is not the only one who has not grokked the subscription element and been surprised -- but it's a tiny minority, and the information is quite clear on the site.

Finally, one may ask: why subscription at all? Well, $39 for a high quality pair of boots is a really, really good deal. Most e-commerce merchants have to reacquire their customers for every transaction. By asking members to commit to come back to the site once a month, the company doesn't have to constantly pay google or other traffic sources to acquire members, and to have prices like this you have to keep costs low. That's the deal. There are plenty of higher priced places to buy shoes if you don't want to subscribe.

Double finally: credits never expire. If you have 8 credits in your account, you can go get 8 pairs of shoes.

Justfab is an awesome company and is creating and H&M or Zara experience online: fast fashion at great prices. I'm not sure HN is the target demographic, but it's a great service and customers love it, and VCs have poured money into because of that.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#24
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not this is a scam is unclear and dependent upon how clearly they tell you this upfront. We've seen enough evil UIs to know that there are many, many ways to hide this information such that a reasonable person would miss it.

I just went through it, on the buy page it says "To become a JustFab VIP Member, simply purchase any JustFab item on this Site and you will be automatically enrolled in the JustFab VIP Membership Program (including the monthly, automatic purchase feature). As a JustFab VIP Member, our experts will send you a customized selection of JustFab items on the 1st day of every month. You will also receive emails, newsletters…

You're looking for it. If you instead were simply looking to buy a pair of shoes you would not be expecting anything at all like that. And you'd probably miss it.

It's important to note that the terms are not listed on the page where you enter your credit card information. They're listed on the "Shopping Bag" page which is 3 pages prior in the checkout process. There is nothing to fill out on the "Shopping Bag" page. The only action the user can take is to click the "Continue Checkout" button. Most users, myself included, would just quickly click through such a page.

When you go to actually submit your order you have to confirm "I accept the terms of Just Fab VIP Membership Program", but it's pretty common to have to accept terms when filling out forms online and pretty uncommon that anyone clicks the link to read them.

This is pretty insidious behavior on JustFab's part. It might be legal but it's definitely not moral.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#25

Their "how it works" page explains this, with far fewer than "2500 words", though it could be clearer. http://www.justfab.com/how-justfab-works.htm They have 2 million likes on Facebook. Were all these users scammed? The "monthly subscription" has recently been a hot e-commerce category. Other sites with a similar model are shoedazzle.com, fabkids.com, musthave.popsugar.com and so on. See: http://www.quora.com/E-Comm…

A quick count from these three websites showed several hundreds customers have fallen victims:

http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.justfab.com

http://www.scambook.com/company/view/146/JustFabcom

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/justfab.html

If you google "justfab review" or "justfab scam" or "justfab fraud", there are surely many more.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#26

Wow, they have a lot of negative reviews. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/justfab.html

Oh for god's sakes, did you even look at the site you just linked to? A site that gathers negative reviews to get companies to pay them>

Did you read Amazon's review -- 1 out of 5 stars with 690 reviews, worse than JustFab's? http://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/amazon.html

I'm sure you'll enjoy 1SaleADay, with 5000 reviews and a 4 star rating! http://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/1saleaday.html

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#27

I've never heard of this site before, but looking at their page 'How it works', it seems clear it me it's a shoe-of-the-month club, and works similar to things like Disney Movie club, Harry and David Fruit of the month club, or one of various Book Clubs. The only scummy part would be if they still charge $39.99/month if you don't cancel / skip / select a shoe, without sending you anything. Compare to Disney Movie of…

But why would anyone ever look at the "How it works" page? Even if a link to the page were prominently featured on the site (it's not - it's only in the footer), how often do you wonder how a shoe store works?

People go to JustFab to buy a pair of shoes, not to join a shoe of the month club. Check out their front page. It looks like a online shoe store. It doesn't mention the VIP program at all. That's tossed in during the checkout process and it's pretty easy to miss the fact that you're buying more than a pair of shoes.

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#28
post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

[deleted]

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#29
post #23

I'm the Series A investor in this company. We in fact have done plenty of due diligence, and you will be pleased to know it is not a scam company. In fact, the company has very high customer satisfaction ratings, including an NPS that is in the ballpark of Amazon, and a very high customer retention rate. More than half of the people who subscribe to the service are still subscribers after two years, which is unusuall…

Not the OP - but I did take a look at that page, and I do find it misleading.

The "checkout as a regular member" is in a small font on the sidebar, while the main CTA is big, bold and defaults to the VIP program.

The part where you're told about the monthly fee is in the last sentence of the sidebar. I had to practically hunt it to find it - for most people shopping online this will be oblivious.

By giving the screenshot - atleast to me, you have proved without doubt that the site is indeed misleading.

[Edit: grammar]

Re: Why can a scam company raise $40 Million Series C + $76 Million Series B?

#30

Leeching money off people this way is a time honored tradition - record, cassette, cd and book clubs etc, arguably AOL dialup, any "free trial" that discretely rolls over into indefinitely charged accounts till you realize and go back and cancel that service you barely tried once. They can raise money because it works, it's legal if not ethical or tasteful, and in their particular case ... they've figured out how to…

I think the big difference is that each of your examples are clearly marked as X of the month clubs. You know what you're buying. With JustFab, you don't. You think you're buying a pair of shoes.
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