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Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

theguardian.com

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Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#21

Post by nols »

jlgreco wrote: post #2

From the article: • Evidence of forced labour on a huge World Cup infrastructure project. • Some Nepalese men have alleged that they have not been paid for months and have had their salaries retained to stop them running away. • Some workers on other sites say employers routinely confiscate passports and refuse to issue ID cards, in effect reducing them to the status of illegal aliens. • Some labourers say they have…

I don't think your point is clear here. It seems from comments that people think you think The Guardian is using "slave" incorrectly, while it seems like you object to the use of quotes around the word.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#22

Post by morgante »

As someone who lives in the Emirates, I have to object to the allegation of "slaves." This is not slavery. It's indentured servitude, which is definitely distressing but not quite of the same character.

Most importantly, in the talks I've had with workers, the vast majority of them still are happy to have these jobs despite the conditions. They're paid an order of magnitude more than they make in Nepal and if you go to poor Nepalese villages you'll see entire families building new houses based on earnings from sons who went to work in the gulf.

Finally, it's important to note that there's pretty drastic variation in how workers are treated in different firms. Certainly none have ideal working conditions, but the majority are legal and passable. It's the truly horrible ones which actually trigger government investigations (and, sadly enough, many of the worst firms are actually run by overseas businessmen.).

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#23

Post by brudgers »

crazygringo wrote: post #17
jlgreco wrote: post #2

From the article: • Evidence of forced labour on a huge World Cup infrastructure project. • Some Nepalese men have alleged that they have not been paid for months and have had their salaries retained to stop them running away. • Some workers on other sites say employers routinely confiscate passports and refuse to issue ID cards, in effect reducing them to the status of illegal aliens. • Some labourers say they have…

I'm not sure it's helpful to call this actual slavery. Actual slavery is when human beings are legally owned by others. This is not actual slavery, but it is atrocious working conditions and very serious human rights violations. The conditions may approach slave-like conditions, so there's good reason to use the word, but quotation marks are probably accurate. This is journalism, after all, not propaganda. (But, you…

Chattel slavery requires ownership and is a specific form of slavery which was common in the US. Its manifestation requires slaves to be treated as property by the legal system.

Slavery has other forms, and being held in captivity for reasons other than legal punishment and forced to work generally is considered one of them.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#24

Post by yapcguy »

jlgreco wrote: post #18
yapcguy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This summer, Nepalese workers died at a rate of almost one a day in Qatar, many of them young men who had sudden heart attacks. It was always a stupid idea to have footballers running around in temperatures of 100-120F, let alone manual laborers toiling over stadiums and roads. FIFA are now looking to move the World Cup to the winter... except it would clash with the Winter Olympics and the busy schedule of domesti…

> It was always a stupid idea to have footballers running around in temperatures >100F I assume they could probably get some strong evaporation cooling from the well-hydrated field, but I am not really familiar with that sort of extreme climate.

They are/were looking at making artificial robotic clouds.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/03/25/qatar.flying.saucers...

> plans to develop giant artificial remotely controlled "clouds" made up of high-tech materials that will be positioned between the blistering sun and the still-to-be-built football stadiums in the Gulf emirate.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#25

Post by marchra »

icecreampain wrote: post #4

This is shocking... how? The arab empire was built on the slave trade. The whole of Dubai exists solely due to external workers, from engineers to the bricklayers. This should not shock anyone.

Agreed. This is a fascinating game mechanic they've created that we are considering adding to our app.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#26

Post by sohooo »

jlgreco wrote: post #18
yapcguy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This summer, Nepalese workers died at a rate of almost one a day in Qatar, many of them young men who had sudden heart attacks. It was always a stupid idea to have footballers running around in temperatures of 100-120F, let alone manual laborers toiling over stadiums and roads. FIFA are now looking to move the World Cup to the winter... except it would clash with the Winter Olympics and the busy schedule of domesti…

> It was always a stupid idea to have footballers running around in temperatures >100F I assume they could probably get some strong evaporation cooling from the well-hydrated field, but I am not really familiar with that sort of extreme climate.

You probably stumbled over this article about scientists @ Qatar University developing artificial clouds: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/9435035.stm

edit: same as above post :)

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#27

Post by glesica »

kvinnako wrote: post #15

I am appalled by the conditions but I don't think any of these articles is going to change a single thing in Qatar. I believe it will continue happening in Qatar. Only way to stop it is educate people from poorer countries to not go there no matter how enticing it seems(just like a mirage).

And to stop hosting international events and locating foreign-owned businesses there.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#28

Post by drzaiusapelord »

morgante wrote: post #22

As someone who lives in the Emirates, I have to object to the allegation of "slaves." This is not slavery. It's indentured servitude, which is definitely distressing but not quite of the same character. Most importantly, in the talks I've had with workers, the vast majority of them still are happy to have these jobs despite the conditions. They're paid an order of magnitude more than they make in Nepal and if you go…

>This is not slavery. It's indentured servitude

Considering wages are being held and passports are taken, I'd say the use of the word slave is justified.

>Most importantly, in the talks I've had with workers, the vast majority of them still are happy to have these jobs despite the conditions.

Survivor bias. The ones who haven't been killed or run away like working there (or are too scared to tell you otherwise).

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#29

Post by bjhoops1 »

Terrible. This reminds me of what was going on in Saipan 20 years ago. A paradise of conservative/libertarian economic governance that Jack Abramoff and Tom Delay worked so hard to protect from the horrors of organized labor and worker's rights.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/07/18/world/made-usa-hard-labor-...

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#30

Post by bsullivan01 »

jlgreco wrote: post #13
bsullivan01 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You objected to Guardian using "scare quotes" or something and I told that this type of abuse happens there all the time. Human rights don't exist.In fact, several of them have been arrested for pulling the same crap in USA http://www.kbur.com/2013/09/20/saudi-princess-scheduled-to-b...

"Scare quotes are quotation marks placed around a word or phrase to imply that it may not signify its apparent meaning or that it is not necessarily the way the quoting person would express its concept. Thus, the quotes are used to establish a use–mention distinction, in a similar way as verbally prefixing a phrase with "so-called". When referred to as "scare quotes", the quotation marks are suggested to imply skepti…

Well, to be exact they are not real slaves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery , at least in the way slavery existed in USA.
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