Live data from Hacker News

The Real Reason The Poor Go Without Bank Accounts

theatlanticcities.com

21–30 of 232 posts

Re: The Real Reason The Poor Go Without Bank Accounts

#21
post #11

I can understand this. My mother in law was sick for a while and in a hospital for a few months. During that time she was late on one of her mortgage payments, which she as been faithfully paying for 2 decades. She also took an equity loan to remodel her house. Because of the missed payment they cancelled her equity loan. She went to the bank to talk to them hoping they would understand, but all he heard was how his…

Stop banking with big banks. Go local. When my brother started his business, he moved all his banking to a local bank, one that had only one branch, which was downtown in his town. He's built a personal relationship with them, and the flexibility it's given him has paid off in spades over the year.

There's no reason to pay some megacorporation to treat you impersonally.

Re: The Real Reason The Poor Go Without Bank Accounts

#23
I thought this article was fascinating and made me think about all of this stuff in a completely new way.

I'm much like the author. I bank electronically. I actually just visited a physical branch today for the first time in months because I had a big wad of cash to deposit, and mobile phone deposit technology hasn't quite reached the level of sophistication needed to handle cash yet.

My relationship with my bank is generally simple. They store my money, and occasionally pay it out or receive more. This is almost all automatic. The one thing they do that might actually involve some effort is the bill pay service, where they will actually mail a physical check in some cases. But most of the payees I have set up in their system have electronic arrangements.

When I need further service, they're good about it. They answer their phones quickly, they can overnight a cashier's check for a reasonable fee on the rare occasions I need something like that, and they'll call me if something looks like fraudulent activity. But this comes up once a year or less.

For the most part, they're basically another appliance for me. We have defined roles and we stick to them. I keep a generous pad of extra cash in the account, never overdraw, never need anything weird, and in exchange, they charge me no fees, even pay me (extremely nominal) interest, and don't hassle me.

This works great if you have the responsibility and cash to do it, but it would fall apart if I didn't. If I started cashing bad checks and overdrafting, I'd get hit with fees up the wazoo and I'd pretty much have to leave. Features that are an extreme convenience to me now, like totally automatic bill pay, would become a huge liability.

I looked at these places and thought that they offered less service. They don't even keep your money for you, after all! And they charge you for the privilege! But, to their customers, they offer more service. They offer more control over their customers' money. They offer more flexibility and less punishment when bending or breaking the rules.

It's a good lesson in not just assuming people are dumb or ignorant. Sure, a lot of people are, but when behavior is this common, there's usually a good, rational reason behind it.

I always thought that if I was poor, I'd still be "smart enough" to bank properly with whatever money I had. Now, I wonder if that really would be "smart".

I also wonder about financial regulation. I generally favor a "better safe than sorry" approach there, but this might illustrate a downside of that. We've all heard about the trouble that non-traditional companies have had with such regulations, whether it's companies like Paypal, or Simple, or Bitcoin-related businesses. They try to get around the regulations in various ways. Here, RiteCheck is getting around banking regulations by simply not being a bank. I have to wonder if they could offer better service and some of the sort of safety and savings ability we associate with normal banking if it were less difficult for RiteCheck to offer something like an actual bank account.

Re: The Real Reason The Poor Go Without Bank Accounts

#24
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having any paper trail to attract the attention of people and organizations you owe money to is arguably the only rational reason for being unbanked in an urban area of a developed country.

I disagree very strongly with that. Here are a few rational reasons that someone may choose to not have their money in a bank: - Moral conflicts. Most banks use your money for purposes that many people consider evil, so choosing to not give them your money is a rational choice. - Lack of trust. Many banks over the last century have run out of money and been unable to honour withdrawal demands/requests. It's reasonabl…

> Many banks over the last century have run out of money and been unable to honour withdrawal demands/requests. It's reasonable and logical not to trust them to keep your money and give it to you when you ask.

Within the last century, yes, but quite far back within it: the last time anyone with modest amounts of money in the U.S. lost deposits in a bank failure was 1933, the year the FDIC was created.

You can still lose money in a bank failure if your deposits are above the FDIC insurance limits, but poor people by definition would not have that much money, so it wouldn't explain their choice not to use banks.

Re: The Real Reason The Poor Go Without Bank Accounts

#25
post #11

I can understand this. My mother in law was sick for a while and in a hospital for a few months. During that time she was late on one of her mortgage payments, which she as been faithfully paying for 2 decades. She also took an equity loan to remodel her house. Because of the missed payment they cancelled her equity loan. She went to the bank to talk to them hoping they would understand, but all he heard was how his…

Stop banking with big banks. Go local. When my brother started his business, he moved all his banking to a local bank, one that had only one branch, which was downtown in his town. He's built a personal relationship with them, and the flexibility it's given him has paid off in spades over the year. There's no reason to pay some megacorporation to treat you impersonally.

Cost. If I bank with a large bank I can use their network of ATMs for free. With a smaller bank I can't withdraw anywhere other than my branch without incurring a ridiculous $3-$5 charge.

Re: The Real Reason The Poor Go Without Bank Accounts

#26
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree very strongly with that. Here are a few rational reasons that someone may choose to not have their money in a bank: - Moral conflicts. Most banks use your money for purposes that many people consider evil, so choosing to not give them your money is a rational choice. - Lack of trust. Many banks over the last century have run out of money and been unable to honour withdrawal demands/requests. It's reasonabl…

USA banks are federally insured, so there's no risk in losing your money. Running away from creditors is not a valid reason. They can sue you. They can't directly take your money.

Well, that's not quite true. There is always a small risk of losing some (or even all) of your money, particularly if you have a large amount in your account. Obviously that risk is very, very low for smaller amounts of money.

Re: The Real Reason The Poor Go Without Bank Accounts

#27
Currently, I'm interning at a well known banking wealth management company, and I find the rich like to have the same environment.

Birthday cards, get well soon cards, calling the client and asking how they are, helping them with last minute account stuff (like making their visa have a higher cap so that cruise trip can be insured).

I think a lot of banking should be like this. I doubt it ever could be, as most banks have very few people, but specialized areas, like this rite-aid, or some wealth banking, have the time to dedicate to these people.

Treating people like people, whether it is restaurants, or banking, or anything, makes a business less like a service and more like an experience. It should be something a lot of startup companies on hn should look into.

Re: The Real Reason The Poor Go Without Bank Accounts

#28
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having any paper trail to attract the attention of people and organizations you owe money to is arguably the only rational reason for being unbanked in an urban area of a developed country.

I disagree very strongly with that. Here are a few rational reasons that someone may choose to not have their money in a bank: - Moral conflicts. Most banks use your money for purposes that many people consider evil, so choosing to not give them your money is a rational choice. - Lack of trust. Many banks over the last century have run out of money and been unable to honour withdrawal demands/requests. It's reasonabl…

Mistrust of banks' ability to honour withdrawal requests is largely irrational in a developed country given the existence of government-backed deposit insurance (and the much greater risk of having your cash stolen). I'd actually consider this to be the classic example of irrational mistrust based on a limited understanding of who actually loses out as a result of bank failures, and overconfidence in one's ability to keep hold of their cash.

The inconvenience argument might be true for some[1] people in some countries but is a complete non-starter in my country where retail bank accounts with a positive balance usually are usually fee-free, as are most forms of transfer between domestic bank accounts, most debit card payments and cash withdrawals from most ATMs. It's hideously inconvenient not to take advantage of all that ([1] I understand that somewhere like the US depositors' costs from basic use of the banking system might sometimes be even higher than those levied by non-bank financial service providers they use instead...)

Granted, the moral conflicts argument has a bit more standing, but arguably only if you apply the same standard of scrutiny to other entities you choose to purchase goods and services from (most of whom will deposit your payment in a bank account...). It's not like there aren't banking service providers that have at least seen the marketing benefits of an ethical stance

Re: The Real Reason The Poor Go Without Bank Accounts

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop banking with big banks. Go local. When my brother started his business, he moved all his banking to a local bank, one that had only one branch, which was downtown in his town. He's built a personal relationship with them, and the flexibility it's given him has paid off in spades over the year. There's no reason to pay some megacorporation to treat you impersonally.

Cost. If I bank with a large bank I can use their network of ATMs for free. With a smaller bank I can't withdraw anywhere other than my branch without incurring a ridiculous $3-$5 charge.

Many credit unions are part of a large co-op with lots of no-fee ATMs all over the place ( http://co-opatm.org/ ). You can also deposit checks/cash at many of these ATMs. They may not be on every street corner like major banks are in some cities, but chances are there's one near you. Some of those credit unions will also reimburse all your ATM fees if you use your debit card a certain amount (for mine, it's 12 transactions per month).

Re: The Real Reason The Poor Go Without Bank Accounts

#30
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree very strongly with that. Here are a few rational reasons that someone may choose to not have their money in a bank: - Moral conflicts. Most banks use your money for purposes that many people consider evil, so choosing to not give them your money is a rational choice. - Lack of trust. Many banks over the last century have run out of money and been unable to honour withdrawal demands/requests. It's reasonabl…

USA banks are federally insured, so there's no risk in losing your money. Running away from creditors is not a valid reason. They can sue you. They can't directly take your money.

250k is the insured limit. You can open accounts in multiple banks if you have more cash than that.
Post reply on HN