It's hard to see neckties as anything more than a way to discourage independent thought and creativity.
If you find a necktie discouraging you from independent thought and creativity, you probably never had any to begin with.
Opposition to and problems with neckties
21–30 of 32 posts
Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties
#22It's hard to see neckties as anything more than a way to discourage independent thought and creativity.
I don't see that at all. I don't see how a knotted piece of silk that completes a certain sartorial ensemble; and that comes in a variety of colours, patterns, and textures; discourages independent thought and creativity... especially creativity. Maybe you're associating it with stuffy "suits"...? It's like saying, "all Asians are good at math," "all white men can't dance," and "all Italians are in the Mafia."
I find constraining clothes discourage thought. They're kind of like noise. The constraint makes you notice them, and that takes some small amount of attention away from whatever you're thinking about.
Back when people used to dress more formally, everyone knew this, at least unconsciously. When someone needed to work late into the night on some hard problem, they'd take off their jacket and loosen their tie. This was so common that in movies it became a standard symbol for working hard.
Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties
#23Neckties have always struck me as anachronistic, even sexist. What item of women's clothing has been around for 100 years and is still regularly worn without modification? Especially one that serves no functional purpose? Why are men still expected to wear fashion designed literally centuries ago? I feel the same applies to suits, but people who (unlike me) actually wear suits assure me the designs change frequently…
>Neckties have always struck me as anachronistic, even sexist. What item of women's clothing has been around for 100 years and is still regularly worn without modification? Especially one that serves no functional purpose? High heels strike me as much worse than ties.
If a necktie did for my head (or pects) what heels do for the calves, I'd occasionally wear one.
Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see that at all. I don't see how a knotted piece of silk that completes a certain sartorial ensemble; and that comes in a variety of colours, patterns, and textures; discourages independent thought and creativity... especially creativity. Maybe you're associating it with stuffy "suits"...? It's like saying, "all Asians are good at math," "all white men can't dance," and "all Italians are in the Mafia."
I find constraining clothes discourage thought. They're kind of like noise. The constraint makes you notice them, and that takes some small amount of attention away from whatever you're thinking about. Back when people used to dress more formally, everyone knew this, at least unconsciously. When someone needed to work late into the night on some hard problem, they'd take off their jacket and loosen their tie. This wa…
I find constraining clothes are constraining because they are ill-fitting. Solution: do not buy ill-fitting garments. Most men do not know how to buy clothes that fit. For those men who do know, they were fortunate enough to learn from their well-dressed father or from books or from a proper tailor. Also, you have to care to know.
Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties
#25For those of you (us?) that wear ties, what knot do you use?
For suits, I wear shirts with a variety of spread collars to match the formality of the suit. (Yes, suits vary in formality depending on colour, pattern, weave, and fineness of the fabric.) And with those shirts, I like the Windsor and the half-Windsor knots.
For sport jackets and button-down collared shirts, I tie the less formal four-in-hand. I have used the half-Windsor with Oxford-cloth button-downs (OCBDs) too.
I have also used the Pratt knott for OCBDs if the tie is too long for me. (I'm only 5'5" tall.)
Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see that at all. I don't see how a knotted piece of silk that completes a certain sartorial ensemble; and that comes in a variety of colours, patterns, and textures; discourages independent thought and creativity... especially creativity. Maybe you're associating it with stuffy "suits"...? It's like saying, "all Asians are good at math," "all white men can't dance," and "all Italians are in the Mafia."
I find constraining clothes discourage thought. They're kind of like noise. The constraint makes you notice them, and that takes some small amount of attention away from whatever you're thinking about. Back when people used to dress more formally, everyone knew this, at least unconsciously. When someone needed to work late into the night on some hard problem, they'd take off their jacket and loosen their tie. This wa…
Ties are manageable just by loosening them and not buttoning your top button right from the start. No one will notice or care. They'll just be surprised you're wearing a tie (for a coder) usually. I've coded a lot in ties. Sport coats are more uncomfortable.
Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find constraining clothes discourage thought. They're kind of like noise. The constraint makes you notice them, and that takes some small amount of attention away from whatever you're thinking about. Back when people used to dress more formally, everyone knew this, at least unconsciously. When someone needed to work late into the night on some hard problem, they'd take off their jacket and loosen their tie. This wa…
I find constraining clothes are constraining because they are ill-fitting. Solution: do not buy ill-fitting garments. Most men do not know how to buy clothes that fit. For those men who do know, they were fortunate enough to learn from their well-dressed father or from books or from a proper tailor. Also, you have to care to know.
Ties aren't cut, so they can't be ill-cut. Nor are they the province of tailors, but of haberdashers.
Ties are intrinsically constraining. Unless you want to go the Reagan wattle route, a route which which a stylish, aristocratic, polysyllabic gentleman like yourself would surely eschew.
Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find constraining clothes are constraining because they are ill-fitting. Solution: do not buy ill-fitting garments. Most men do not know how to buy clothes that fit. For those men who do know, they were fortunate enough to learn from their well-dressed father or from books or from a proper tailor. Also, you have to care to know.
Ties aren't cut, so they can't be ill-cut. Nor are they the province of tailors, but of haberdashers. Ties are intrinsically constraining. Unless you want to go the Reagan wattle route, a route which which a stylish, aristocratic, polysyllabic gentleman like yourself would surely eschew.
I was referring to the cut/selection of the shirt coupled with the tying of the tie. My mistake for not making that clear.
You are correct. Ties are intrinsically constraining. And so are belts. I find that if I want to be more thoughtful and creative, removing my belt does the trick. ;-) The people around me, especially the women, have gotten used to my trousers down at my ankles. :-D
Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties
#29I wonder if Bill Cattey (my first boss at MIT) still has his debugging tie. The idea was that software bugs hide when programmers are near, but you use the tie to fool them into thinking someone important is using the software. Then they come out.
Here's bill when he's not debugging: http://ourdoings.com/brlewis/photo.html?th=9f/6t/g5hn.jpg...
Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
A necktie serves no practical purpose. And forcing people to wear one who couldn't care less about fashion is simply a method of encouraging conformity (e.g., to get employees to do as they are told without question).
Actually, it does serve a practical purpose: to bring attention to one's face. Unfortunately, you don't see/get that. And that's OK because not everyone gets aesthetics, design, colour harmony, lines, etc. It's just like not everyone is cut out for programming, or not everyone is naturally good at dancing. Also, there's a difference between fashion and style. Fashion is what's available; style is what you choose. The…
I wear sport coats with jeans, so eguanlao would probably fight me, but at least I know the difference between a sport coat and a suit coat, so we'd be boxing instead of using katanas. p.s. styleforum represent.