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Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

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Re: Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

#21

Post by bad_user »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #16

I think things will become much much worse for Microsoft before they get better. I'm afraid they will lose small and medium size enterprises and ISVs because their licensing structure has become so complex, overpriced and antiquated that a new generation of customers will refuse to deal with them. In the past there was piracy as a way to lower the barriers to entry. Today, piracy has become dangerous for small compan…

> In order to sell Windows desktop apps in the Windows store and use all device capabilities you need a company account, and to get a company account you need to be recognized as a company in your own country

There are valid reasons for doing that. In Europe for example one reason would be VAT handling. It may very well be that they were forced in doing this.

But, in European countries at least, you have the option to register as a Sole Proprietorship. Depending on the country of course, this is painless to do, accounting is simpler and taxes are much better (in comparison with starting a LLC and paying yourself a salary). It has downsides of course, but for developers trying to experiment it is perfect.

Re: Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

#22

Post by FigBug »

nightski wrote: post #18
rdl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Windows licenses" alone probably include more distinct SKUs than Apple has total products. A lot of that is just inherent to enterprise vs. consumer, but even then, Microsoft has lots of complexity, seemingly on purpose, while Apple tried to be minimalist.

There are only 2 SKUs of Windows 8 that I know of. Standard and Pro. (At least that you purchase directly, not already on a device).

In my MSDN Account there are 38 versions of Window 8 and 12 of Window 8 Enterprise.

Re: Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

#23

Post by frozenport »

pjmlp wrote: post #19
jpatokal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Google develop a desktop Android or Office, when they've already got this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_OS

Because it sucks?

I would like to second this opinion. I have used Google tools to collaborate but always needed to post process the results in a real presentation make program like Office or Latex.

Re: Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

#24

Post by yuhong »

Encosia wrote: post #15
nazgulnarsil wrote: post #2

It's worrying for MS that for all the major divisions shown in that image, I've never once thought of or used them in relation to each other. MS has no unifying experience to build on in consumer consciousness.

That may be true for your average HN user, but Microsoft products generally work pretty darn well with other Microsoft products. There are always exceptions, but as someone who works with small businesses often, I don't see any obvious silo'ing in how they use products from those different divisions in their real-world work. Cross-quadrant dynamic synergies where the rubber meets the road and pivots, off the top of m…

This reminds me of the HTML export in Word/Excel 2013, which is pretty much unchanged from 2003, complete with setting "Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 or later" in Web Options causing things like VML to be required that is not supported by IE10 anymore by default. I wrote an Ars Technica forum post on this.

Re: Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

#25

Post by orionblastar »

Ever since Ballmer took over, Microsoft is just scoring 'Own Goals'. Microsoft used to think that Apple was their enemy, that IBM was their enemy, that Sun was their enemy, that Oracle was their enemy, that Google was their enemy? Well Microsoft is their own worst enemy! In fact we have entered a Post-PC, Post-Microsoft era.

Apple knew it was Post-PC and invested in smartphone and tablets and knew the desktop GUI would not work in mobile devices. So iOS got a different GUI/UI than Mac OSX has. Microsoft does not get that, a Desktop GUI for all products! Hey why'd we lose $900M in Surface sales? Oh well better buy out Nokia who failed to turn profits selling Windows Mobile 8 phones named Lumina, and rebrand them as 'Surface' phone so they will sell better.

Microsoft has to fix their broken business model, they tried to steal Apple's model and it backfired on them because they aren't Apple (Duh!) and they don't manage things the same way Apple does. Steve Ballmer is no Steve Jobs or Tim Cook, and he should understand why.

Instead of fixing what is wrong with their products and services, they just 'rebrand' them under a different name. Lumina becomes Surface phone, Zune Music Player becomes XBox Music. Windows 8 gets updated to Windows 8.1 and adds the Windows logo where the Start Menu used to be and it takes you to the Start Page in the Metro UI. But where are the visual clues on how to find the Charms Bar? Where are any visual clues at all in the Metro UI? Why is Windows 8.X the first version of Windows not to have visual clues to the user in some form? Of course the desktop part has them, minimize, maximize, close buttons on Windows. But Metro UI does not.

If I were Tim Cook I would not worry about Microsoft taking away anything Apple has done. I would just develop a less expensive version of the iPhone and iPad series, perhaps the iPhone Lite or iPad Lite that can compete with Surface phones and tablets in price. Then let customers decide when the iOS versions have the visual clues and a UI that works for mobile devices and Surface does not.

Re: Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

#26

Post by fauigerzigerk »

bad_user wrote: post #21
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #16

I think things will become much much worse for Microsoft before they get better. I'm afraid they will lose small and medium size enterprises and ISVs because their licensing structure has become so complex, overpriced and antiquated that a new generation of customers will refuse to deal with them. In the past there was piracy as a way to lower the barriers to entry. Today, piracy has become dangerous for small compan…

> In order to sell Windows desktop apps in the Windows store and use all device capabilities you need a company account, and to get a company account you need to be recognized as a company in your own country There are valid reasons for doing that. In Europe for example one reason would be VAT handling. It may very well be that they were forced in doing this. But, in European countries at least, you have the option t…

>There are valid reasons for doing that

There always are, but it's a question of priorities. VAT handling is optional for small businesses in most European countries and it has nothing to do with device capabilities or types of software. Tell me a reason that is valid for desktop software but not for other types of store apps, a reason that is valid for some device capabilities but not others! They are creating unnecessary dependencies between unrelated things (distribution/deployment, types of software, permissions/capabilities, taxes/social security). That's what incidental complexity is all about.

>But, in European countries at least, you have the option to register as a Sole Proprietorship [...] for developers trying to experiment it is perfect

Registering as a sole trader usually means that you have to pay minimum social security contributions even if you make a loss. In the UK that's just 20 Euros or so, but in most other European countries it's between 200 and 300 Euros per month. If you're self funded that hurts.

Re: Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

#27

Post by bad_user »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #26
bad_user wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In order to sell Windows desktop apps in the Windows store and use all device capabilities you need a company account, and to get a company account you need to be recognized as a company in your own country There are valid reasons for doing that. In Europe for example one reason would be VAT handling. It may very well be that they were forced in doing this. But, in European countries at least, you have the option t…

> There are valid reasons for doing that There always are, but it's a question of priorities. VAT handling is optional for small businesses in most European countries and it has nothing to do with device capabilities or types of software. Tell me a reason that is valid for desktop software but not for other types of store apps, a reason that is valid for some device capabilities but not others! They are creating unne…

> Registering as a sole trader usually means that you have to pay minimum social security contributions even if you make a loss ... in most other European countries it's between 200 and 300 Euros per month

That's true, unfortunately, although these social contributions means you get access to healthcare, which is always nice to have even when starting out.

A minimum of 200 EUR seems too much though, are you sure? In Romania, you get taxed with a percentage of the revenue for healthcare, the tax for unemployment benefits is optional and the only tax that would be required is the pension fund contribution which would amount to 32 EUR per month or something like that.

Re: Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

#28

Post by MichaelGG »

FigBug wrote: post #22
nightski wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are only 2 SKUs of Windows 8 that I know of. Standard and Pro. (At least that you purchase directly, not already on a device).

In my MSDN Account there are 38 versions of Window 8 and 12 of Window 8 Enterprise.

You're counting N and KN versions, 32+64 bit, checked/debug? Or what exactly?

I'm sure Apple has SKUs for other countries, where they need different power adapters. The core Windows licensing is down to 4 now, right? 2 on desktop, 2 on server.

SQL Server on the other hand...

Re: Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

#29

Post by fauigerzigerk »

bad_user wrote: post #27
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are valid reasons for doing that There always are, but it's a question of priorities. VAT handling is optional for small businesses in most European countries and it has nothing to do with device capabilities or types of software. Tell me a reason that is valid for desktop software but not for other types of store apps, a reason that is valid for some device capabilities but not others! They are creating unne…

> Registering as a sole trader usually means that you have to pay minimum social security contributions even if you make a loss ... in most other European countries it's between 200 and 300 Euros per month That's true, unfortunately, although these social contributions means you get access to healthcare, which is always nice to have even when starting out. A minimum of 200 EUR seems too much though, are you sure? In…

>although these social contributions means you get access to healthcare, which is always nice to have even when starting out.

It is indeed, but often times there are various ways to get that. You could be insured with a spouse or by opting into a voluntary scheme for low earners or students. Having to register as a sole trader makes that impossible in some countries.

>A minimum of 200 EUR seems too much though, are you sure?

Yes, for instance, in Spain it's 250 Euros per month just to be registered as autónomo. It's similar in many other countries. Good to know it's different in Romania!

Re: Worries That Microsoft Is Too Tricky to Manage

#30

Post by bad_user »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #29
bad_user wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Registering as a sole trader usually means that you have to pay minimum social security contributions even if you make a loss ... in most other European countries it's between 200 and 300 Euros per month That's true, unfortunately, although these social contributions means you get access to healthcare, which is always nice to have even when starting out. A minimum of 200 EUR seems too much though, are you sure? In…

> although these social contributions means you get access to healthcare, which is always nice to have even when starting out. It is indeed, but often times there are various ways to get that. You could be insured with a spouse or by opting into a voluntary scheme for low earners or students. Having to register as a sole trader makes that impossible in some countries. > A minimum of 200 EUR seems too much though, are…

> Yes, for instance, in Spain it's 250 Euros per month just to be registered as autónomo.

Well, that sucks, I agree.

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