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Why You Can’t Travel Back in Time and Kill Hitler

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Re: Why You Can’t Travel Back in Time and Kill Hitler

#21

Post by sentenza »

brokenparser wrote: post #13

The true reason is probably much simpler than any of those considering war has a profound impact wherever it strikes. WW1&2 were triggered by a long chain of events and itself sparked another chain of ongoing events, affecting great many lives dead or not (including myself). If it all possible, you may have to mate with an ancestor to get your own life back.

But consider this important point: While it stands to reason that WW2 was almost inevitable after the treaty of Versailles (US and Brit diplomats said as much at the time), the Holocaust was very much evitable.

Had the Communists won the battle for the disgruntled German of the 30s instead of being beaten out by the Nazis, there would not have been a Holocaust but probably still a war.

Re: Why You Can’t Travel Back in Time and Kill Hitler

#22

Post by brokenparser »

afterburner wrote: post #20
Houshalter wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true for everything, with the whole butterfly effect. Just opening the door to the time machine and walking outside is enough to change history completely. Imagine someone has sex in a different position or at a slightly different time. A different sperm reaches the egg, a different person is born. Not only will that affect all their descendants (which is pretty much the entire human race after a few centuries…

It's the opposite of the butterfly effect, he's more likely arguing that WW2 was built on the frustrations and ideologies thrust forth as a result of WW1, so merely killing one angry officer isn't necessarily going to avoid one or another catastrophe involving war and genocide. WW2 might in fact have been unavoidable (not sure whether this is true or not, but it might be). Some other racist charismatic dude might jus…

Not sure if my attempted humour is that bad, or so advanced it wooshed straight over your heads.

Re: Why You Can’t Travel Back in Time and Kill Hitler

#23

Post by Houshalter »

sentenza wrote: post #21
brokenparser wrote: post #13

The true reason is probably much simpler than any of those considering war has a profound impact wherever it strikes. WW1&2 were triggered by a long chain of events and itself sparked another chain of ongoing events, affecting great many lives dead or not (including myself). If it all possible, you may have to mate with an ancestor to get your own life back.

But consider this important point: While it stands to reason that WW2 was almost inevitable after the treaty of Versailles (US and Brit diplomats said as much at the time), the Holocaust was very much evitable. Had the Communists won the battle for the disgruntled German of the 30s instead of being beaten out by the Nazis, there would not have been a Holocaust but probably still a war.

The holocaust was only a fraction of the victims that died during the war. If there wasn't a holocaust but just mass starvation or more cities getting bombed in wars, etc, it could still be a net loss.

Re: Why You Can’t Travel Back in Time and Kill Hitler

#25

Post by afterburner »

brokenparser wrote: post #22
afterburner wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the opposite of the butterfly effect, he's more likely arguing that WW2 was built on the frustrations and ideologies thrust forth as a result of WW1, so merely killing one angry officer isn't necessarily going to avoid one or another catastrophe involving war and genocide. WW2 might in fact have been unavoidable (not sure whether this is true or not, but it might be). Some other racist charismatic dude might jus…

Not sure if my attempted humour is that bad, or so advanced it wooshed straight over your heads.

Changing the past while at the same time vanishing yourself from existence is still changing the past... but I will consider your proposed remedy when it comes up.

Re: Why You Can’t Travel Back in Time and Kill Hitler

#26

Post by lutusp »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #4

Doesn't it stand to reason that if it were ever possible to travel back in time and kill Hitler that this would've already happened?

> Doesn't it stand to reason that if it were ever possible to travel back in time and kill Hitler that this would've already happened?

No, because all the idealists who went back in time to kill Hitler (believe me, they were lined up around the block, and with no expectation of a safe return), according to multiple witnesses suddenly and inexplicably vanished just as they were pulling the trigger. Theorists say that outcome may have had something to do with the fact that their own existence depended in some perverse way on Hitler's uninterrupted existence.

All except Martin Bormann, who (I bet you didn't know this) went down into the bunker and killed Hitler and his girlfriend Eva Braun -- and even shot Hitler's dog Blondi -- then made up something about Hitler committing suicide, then disappeared without a trace. Of the top Nazis who survived to the end of the war, most eventually were located, but Bormann totally disappeared.

There's obvious speculation the Bormann was the time traveler we all imagined could have done it, and wished we could be. Too bad he didn't act sooner -- every month that Hitler lived caused the deaths of tens to hundreds of thousands.

Okay, I just made that up. Ordinarily I wouldn't have to say that, but there are so many crazy ideas uncritically embraced these days that I realize someone might take this seriously.

Re: Why You Can’t Travel Back in Time and Kill Hitler

#27

Post by lutusp »

twiceaday wrote: post #5
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #4

Doesn't it stand to reason that if it were ever possible to travel back in time and kill Hitler that this would've already happened?

What if by killing Hitler all future timelines ended a lot worse than this one? If it were ever possible to travel back in time, then we are living on the most optimal timeline according to some metric.

> What if by killing Hitler all future timelines ended a lot worse than this one?

I always like to hear from at least one optimist. :)

Re: Why You Can’t Travel Back in Time and Kill Hitler

#28

Post by lutusp »

praptak wrote: post #7
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #4

Doesn't it stand to reason that if it were ever possible to travel back in time and kill Hitler that this would've already happened?

Maybe it happened, sort of. I mean our timeline being the result of killing Megahitler and replacing him with the Hitler we know and find him totally evil only because we can't compare him to Megahitler.

> Maybe it happened, sort of. I mean our timeline being the result of killing Megahitler and replacing him with the Hitler we know and find him totally evil only because we can't compare him to Megahitler.

That might be a little tongue in cheek, but in fact, Hitler made a number of very bad decisions, like invading Russia, that a MegaHitler might have avoided. The history of that time could have been much worse with someone a little less nutty in charge.

I bet someone from the so-called "History Channel" is reading this and planning to turn it into a pseudo-historical TV series.

Re: Why You Can’t Travel Back in Time and Kill Hitler

#29

Post by qbrass »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #4

Doesn't it stand to reason that if it were ever possible to travel back in time and kill Hitler that this would've already happened?

I wouldn't use the word 'ever'.

Time travel might be discovered so far into the future that time travelers simply don't care about changing things that happened in ancient history.

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