Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect • Hacker News Board

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#21

Post by gizmo686 » Sun, Sep 01, 2013, 8:21 PM UTC

UncleHo wrote: post #11

jawngee wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Saigon. Use 8.8.8.8 for your DNS, unless you are accessing via 3G. I use unblock-us.com for my home network. Honestly, I don't see how they plan on enforcing this except for having a look see at already well known dissident bloggers. And, frankly, I think this 9X generation, which seems to be drowning in unprecedented narcissim will flip this whole place on its head when they get a bit older. Vietnam will be a…

I was using 8.8.8.8 for my DNS (I think it's google DNS?), but it was ridiculously slow for me. Wasn't sure if I was being penalized somehow for switching DNS provider and ended up changing back to my IP's DNS. It's a good point about the 9Xers. I don't know how politically aware or motivated they are, but I do know that, like the rest of us, they want free access to information and communication. Even if it is just…

Switching DNS providers could cause problems simply because your new provider doesn't do as good a job in your area, not because of any intentional penalization. You could try opendns (208.67.222.222), or some other 3rd party provider.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#22

Post by jawngee » Sun, Sep 01, 2013, 8:55 PM UTC

jivatmanx wrote: post #17

comex wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that the US has zero speech-related internet censorship, and the comparison is to a law banning sharing any news articles online and publishing any material opposing the government, I'd say the US still has a valid complaint here.

Vietnam is a communist tyranny that simply applying existing laws and policies to a new medium, so this isn't really a change. Economists prefer percentages to absolutes, and trends to isolated incidents. 9/11 has not only halted the long trend towards increasing freedom, but began a new and troubling trend of growing tyranny. Perhaps the U.S. isn't overtly attacking press freedom, but the U.K. is, informs the U.S. b…

Tyranny is a bit overstated.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#23

Post by jawngee » Sun, Sep 01, 2013, 9:13 PM UTC

state wrote: post #19

jawngee wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Saigon. Use 8.8.8.8 for your DNS, unless you are accessing via 3G. I use unblock-us.com for my home network. Honestly, I don't see how they plan on enforcing this except for having a look see at already well known dissident bloggers. And, frankly, I think this 9X generation, which seems to be drowning in unprecedented narcissim will flip this whole place on its head when they get a bit older. Vietnam will be a…

Had to look up the "9X generation". For those interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9X_Generation

There's a few things going on here that I think are going to have serious influence on the next 10 years.

First, the 9X kids, as I mentioned before, want what the rest of the world already has. They've had a taste and I don't think they are willing to concede.

Second, a lot of Viet Kieu (Vietnamese from abroad) are returning and they have a lot of money. They're going to also want to maintain some semblance of what they've grown accustomed to in Canada, US and Australia. If there is anything I've learned from living here, money can buy almost everything.

The rest of SE Asia is growing at a faster rate. Vietnam is only really beating Indonesia.

I think what most people don't get is that communism here doesn't mean what you probably think it does. Capitalism is huge here and it's only going to get bigger. So, one or the other is going to have to give.

Finally, this decree is kind of toothless. They have neither the money or the knowledge on implementing it. Their idea of blocking facebook was (Facebook is generally available anywhere now) to block some DNS entries.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#24

Post by sondh » Sun, Sep 01, 2013, 9:28 PM UTC

UncleHo wrote: post #2

I'm in Hanoi. Tried to click on the link. Blocked. BBC.com totally blocked here.

It's interesting to see a new HN account created 4 hours ago with such a "dangerous" username. Especially in a post about censorship in Vietnam. Well played.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#25

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sun, Sep 01, 2013, 11:57 PM UTC

alextingle wrote: post #12

> Last month the US embassy in Hanoi said it was "deeply concerned by the decree's provisions", arguing that "fundamental freedoms apply online just as they do offline". My hypocrisy-meter just broke.

The US doesn't block YouTube, Facebook, blogspot, wordpress, imgr...uhm...they don't block anything that I know of.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#26

Post by runn1ng » Sun, Sep 01, 2013, 11:58 PM UTC

state wrote: post #19

jawngee wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Saigon. Use 8.8.8.8 for your DNS, unless you are accessing via 3G. I use unblock-us.com for my home network. Honestly, I don't see how they plan on enforcing this except for having a look see at already well known dissident bloggers. And, frankly, I think this 9X generation, which seems to be drowning in unprecedented narcissim will flip this whole place on its head when they get a bit older. Vietnam will be a…

Had to look up the "9X generation". For those interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9X_Generation

>they are also willing to reject established traditions, ignore elder class values, listen to classical music

>classical music

What?

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#27

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sun, Sep 01, 2013, 11:58 PM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #20

comex wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that the US has zero speech-related internet censorship, and the comparison is to a law banning sharing any news articles online and publishing any material opposing the government, I'd say the US still has a valid complaint here.

I wouldn't say zero. Child pornagraphy and copyright infringement are still censored. (Admitadly, most copyright infringement is self sensored to assure DMCA compliance, but I still count that).

Yes, on the other hand, those things flow more freely in China.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#28

Post by wyager » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 12:06 AM UTC

jawngee wrote: post #22

jivatmanx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vietnam is a communist tyranny that simply applying existing laws and policies to a new medium, so this isn't really a change. Economists prefer percentages to absolutes, and trends to isolated incidents. 9/11 has not only halted the long trend towards increasing freedom, but began a new and troubling trend of growing tyranny. Perhaps the U.S. isn't overtly attacking press freedom, but the U.K. is, informs the U.S. b…

Tyranny is a bit overstated.

Said people in every historical state that was slowly sliding towards despotism.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#29

Post by slacka » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 12:10 AM UTC

jivatmanx wrote: post #17

comex wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that the US has zero speech-related internet censorship, and the comparison is to a law banning sharing any news articles online and publishing any material opposing the government, I'd say the US still has a valid complaint here.

Vietnam is a communist tyranny that simply applying existing laws and policies to a new medium, so this isn't really a change. Economists prefer percentages to absolutes, and trends to isolated incidents. 9/11 has not only halted the long trend towards increasing freedom, but began a new and troubling trend of growing tyranny. Perhaps the U.S. isn't overtly attacking press freedom, but the U.K. is, informs the U.S. b…

Events like this are a reminder of why technology like Tor and I2P are so important. When I was working in China, I was surprised by the number of people that were aware of Tor and those that I introduced it to were thrilled to have their freedom back. In Thailand, I found it installed in Internet cafe's to access blocked sites.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#30

Post by Monotoko » Mon, Sep 02, 2013, 12:24 AM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #20

comex wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that the US has zero speech-related internet censorship, and the comparison is to a law banning sharing any news articles online and publishing any material opposing the government, I'd say the US still has a valid complaint here.

I wouldn't say zero. Child pornagraphy and copyright infringement are still censored. (Admitadly, most copyright infringement is self sensored to assure DMCA compliance, but I still count that).

Child pornography makes sense though, I can't see any civilised society ever being okay with that because of the permanent harm it brings to those involved. The ban has been in place since before the Internet, and thus it was brought to the Internet too.

There needs to be rules, but they need to be sensible and not limit speech. The other side of that coin though is the laws against copyrighted material, most people don't care and download stuff illegally anyway.

I can't imagine lawmakers backing away from the Internet, and I don't really want them to because before you know it someone would be monetising child porn. No idea how you would even begin to solve the problem of balance though.