An Open Letter to My Former NSA Colleagues • Hacker News Board

Re: An Open Letter to My Former NSA Colleagues

#21

Post by gglitch » Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 8:55 PM UTC

bazillion wrote: post #19

gglitch wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent makes the case in favor of sympathy for public servants very eloquently, but constructs his argument by appealing to how much we don't know about what's really going on in the NSA--but the American public shouldn't have to take the NSA or its sympathizers on faith. It may not be reasonable to expect full disclosure, but the current level of disclosure is insulting. It's easy to believe that most civil servants…

Oversight is definitely the key to limiting the possibility of government overreach, but it is wrong on the populace's part to think that just because they aren't privy to the oversight that it isn't there. There is much the same problem with those who work in the political realm in D.C. They are constantly derided as do-nothing on a macro scale, but on an individual basis a lot of effort is put into how laws are con…

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, but respectfully, this seems to still be begging the question.

> ...it is wrong on the populace's part to think that just because they aren't privy to the oversight that it isn't there.

The populace seems to be decreasingly comfortable with the information currently available, especially when much of that information seems contradictory or deliberately deceptive. I have no doubt that you're right, that a more complete picture would obviate a lot of the public's concerns; so it's sensible for the public to demand a more complete picture.

Re: An Open Letter to My Former NSA Colleagues

#22

Post by malandrew » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 2:19 AM UTC

bazillion wrote: post #9

I can understand the public outrage over what the implications are for things that have been circulated in the press. The author, however, is guilty of a very terrible error in my opinion -- he has walked the halls of Ft. Meade and seen how the NSA operated, and yet now he believes that the NSA operates 180 degrees from when he joined. He's essentially casting aspersions at those who have joined the NSA since his lea…

I'm sorry for being so curt after you spent time on a long thoughtful answer, but the mere existence of parallel construction suggests that you are wrong on this. I think most of the rest of the infractions can be equivocated via bureaucracy, negligence or a belief that the processes in place actually do protect Americans, but parallel construction is so far beyond what is ethical and what is within the jurisdiction of the NSA that it is indefensible. However just because someone can explain away some of the wrongdoings committed by otherwise well intentioned people, that does not mean that we, the people, should accept this. What is going on presents a far far greater existential threat to everything our nation stands for than any terrorist in history. Nations heal from almost all single acts of violence, such as 9-11. However what we have going on right now is a metastasizing cancer that is spreading to all agencies and even local police forces.

If parallel construction is not 180 degrees then I don't know what is.

Re: An Open Letter to My Former NSA Colleagues

#23

Post by malandrew » Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 2:24 AM UTC

bazillion wrote: post #19

gglitch wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent makes the case in favor of sympathy for public servants very eloquently, but constructs his argument by appealing to how much we don't know about what's really going on in the NSA--but the American public shouldn't have to take the NSA or its sympathizers on faith. It may not be reasonable to expect full disclosure, but the current level of disclosure is insulting. It's easy to believe that most civil servants…

Oversight is definitely the key to limiting the possibility of government overreach, but it is wrong on the populace's part to think that just because they aren't privy to the oversight that it isn't there. There is much the same problem with those who work in the political realm in D.C. They are constantly derided as do-nothing on a macro scale, but on an individual basis a lot of effort is put into how laws are con…

I don't doubt that the oversight is there, but I fully expect it to be ineffective and without teeth. I reckon most violators get a slap on the wrist or at worst get fired. This is exactly what has happened on Wall Street, even after lots of public attention that some politician would normally placate through token prosecutions. However, whenever everything is done in secret, there is almost no motivation for anyone to rock the boat by prosecuting a violator and demanding a just punishment. You simply don't gain political brownie points for prosecuting someone for a crime that no one knows even happened.