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Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge

businessweek.com

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Re: Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge

#21

Post by unmei »

jotm wrote: post #20
dvmmh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone that buys this is going to spray it in their mouths. This has nothing to do with skin absorption and everything to do with getting around the FDA.

the taste is pretty bad and lingers for a while - why not just get pills?

Yes. No way they're going to spray it in their mouths, caffeine is horribly bitter. Assuming it absorbs well through the skin, this is advantageous as a delivery system because it won't go through first-pass metabolism by the liver and kidneys as anything absorbed by the gut does. Theoretically, this means that a much lower dose is necessary.

Re: Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge

#22

Post by cma »

300bps wrote: post #12
desigooner wrote: post #6

For me, it's really easy to dismiss the product as snakeoil when I hear something like Homeopathic energy being used to promote the product.

He calls it “homeopathic energy” and says they’ve invested around $50,000 in it so far. Maybe it's time he gives back the $100,000 and enrolls back in college. For anyone unfamiliar why it's such a red flag that someone voluntarily associates themselves with homepathy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy Homeopathy is a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on his doctrine o…

He's a businessman, not the head of a charity. In 2007, the homeopathic industry did $3.7 billion in sales. It is probably higher now.

On the other hand, if this thing works, it surely does so by placebo, but due to the harmful effects of actual caffeine usage, placebo might actually be a major benefit to the consumer.

Re: Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge

#24

Post by revelation »

jotm wrote: post #20
dvmmh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone that buys this is going to spray it in their mouths. This has nothing to do with skin absorption and everything to do with getting around the FDA.

the taste is pretty bad and lingers for a while - why not just get pills?

You can also just buy pure caffeine powder and mix it with your favorite drink, or buy capsules seperately and make your own pills. Probably much more cost-effective.

And yes, from personal experience, I can attest to the fact that pure caffeine has an extremely bitter taste.

(Which begs the question, does it taste bitter because it is after all a neurotoxin and we have evolved to find those lacking in taste?)

Re: Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge

#25

Post by mikeyouse »

300bps wrote: post #14
mtinkerhess wrote: post #9

It sounds like the main benefits from the spray as opposed to coffee / tea are: 1) Cost 2) Convenience. The spray will cost about $0.38 per dose. The competition isn't coffee or tea but caffeine pills, which are cheaper and about as convenient. It looks like you can get 120 100 mg pills on Amazon for $5, or $0.04 per dose. I don't see the benefit of a spray as opposed to pills.

It looks like you can get 120 100 mg pills on Amazon for $5, or $0.04 per dose. I don't see the benefit of a spray as opposed to pills. You have a good point, but 100 mg is a good dose of caffeine for people that are sensitive to it. They would find themselves cutting the pills down for lesser doses. The 100 mg caffeine pills I bought on Amazon are very tiny and would be very difficult to cut without a specialized de…

The specialized device for cutting pills costs about $3 and is available at every single pharmacy on earth. They are generally designed to be used by the elderly and infirm.

Re: Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge

#26

Post by mikeyouse »

inspector-g wrote: post #18

[His] father, who has a Ph.D. in bioorganic chemistry and owns his own lab in China, helped develop it. I love the irony. Peter Thiel was trying to make a point with his "College Dropout Challenge", but this product was really developed by someone with a graduate-level education.

It's an inspiring message though;

    Anyone can drop out of school, find a partner,
    and start a business.
I suppose with context it reads a bit differently though;

    Anyone can drop out of Harvard, take a expedition to
    Antarctica, meet a venture capitalist on the boat,
    and use your dad's PhD-level chemistry knowledge and
    infrastructure to start a business selling snake oil to
    gullible people.

Re: Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge

#27

Post by sp332 »

Someone wrote: post #15

Homeopathic, indeed. http://www.unboundmedicine.com/harrietlane/ub/citation/15135... states about 2 microgram/cm^2/h absorption of caffeine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine gives about 100 milligram per cup of coffee. Assuming 100 cm^2 exposure area, you would need a milligram per cm^2 for a "cup of coffee equivalent". That's 500 hours ("three weeks") And that is assuming that this spray is equivalent to whatev…

You're assuming there's nothing in the spray besides caffeine. Any number of other ingredients could affect the rate of absorption.

Re: Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge

#28

Post by 300bps »

mikeyouse wrote: post #25
300bps wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like you can get 120 100 mg pills on Amazon for $5, or $0.04 per dose. I don't see the benefit of a spray as opposed to pills. You have a good point, but 100 mg is a good dose of caffeine for people that are sensitive to it. They would find themselves cutting the pills down for lesser doses. The 100 mg caffeine pills I bought on Amazon are very tiny and would be very difficult to cut without a specialized de…

The specialized device for cutting pills costs about $3 and is available at every single pharmacy on earth. They are generally designed to be used by the elderly and infirm.

How small of a pill can they accurately cut? The caffeine pills I got off Amazon are about the size of 2 pinheads and are kind of soft. I don't think they would be easy but I've never used a pill cutter.

Re: Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge

#29

Post by dclowd9901 »

JacksonGariety wrote: post #5

> "The world's toughest problems aren't going to solve themselves!" What problem does this solve? Sleep deprivation for people who don't drink soda, tea or coffee?

Is this criticism not the basis of the article itself?

Re: Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge

#30

Post by mead5432 »

cma wrote: post #22
300bps wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He calls it “homeopathic energy” and says they’ve invested around $50,000 in it so far. Maybe it's time he gives back the $100,000 and enrolls back in college. For anyone unfamiliar why it's such a red flag that someone voluntarily associates themselves with homepathy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy Homeopathy is a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on his doctrine o…

He's a businessman, not the head of a charity. In 2007, the homeopathic industry did $3.7 billion in sales. It is probably higher now. On the other hand, if this thing works, it surely does so by placebo, but due to the harmful effects of actual caffeine usage, placebo might actually be a major benefit to the consumer.

$3.7 billion in sales is not a lot when you are talking about an industry or market.

Now if you spread the $3.7 billion over the different product options, one option alone is probably not going to bring in a whole bunch of revenue. Afterall, it isn't $3.7 billion for Caffeine sprays only...

If you give them 1/1000 of the total market, that is only $3.7 million in revenue for a company. That isn't what most would consider high potential.

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