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A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

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Re: A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

#21

Post by mbesto »

davidw wrote: post #18
mbesto wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the first time I've read a sweeping generalization from yourself based on "personal experience". I have no doubt you have a lot of personal experiences and don't disagree with your viewpoint (in fact my personal experience dictates the same) however, it is still a generalization. You're talking about a cohort that you (and I for that matter) have no formal analysis to back up. I'm American and I've immigra…

> perhaps it's this painful barrier that filters out all of the immigrants who don't create jobs for the US and does identify the people that do. I don't buy it. If 'painful barriers' were a good thing, you'd see the world's best capitalists in North Korea and Cuba, no? The US has fewer painful barriers to creating companies, and a lot of good infrastructure, and so a lot of the world's largest, biggest, most importa…

If 'painful barriers' were a good thing, you'd see the world's best capitalists in North Korea and Cuba, no?

There's a difference between impossible barriers and painful barriers. Just because a wall exist doesn't mean you can't climb over it. My point is a psychological one - that perhaps it's the personality and characteristic of a person who is willing to circumvent government barriers that makes them so appealing to start a successful business. Honestly, I don't know, it's just food for thought.

Predicting the future is often difficult.

So who are we to judge who should be allowed in not allowed in?

Don't have time for the other points, I have some barbecue to attend to:-)

Hehe, no worries. I appreciate the fruitful discussion.

Re: A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

#22

Post by newbie12 »

jacquesm wrote: post #2

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Immigrants have one leg up over the competition: they have generally very little to lose and everything to gain. They have also already self-selected for being people that are not risk adverse (they just left everything behind to start a new life) and they are executing on their dreams. I often see people that rant against immigrants in general and I always wonder how they would…

These entrepreneurs all appear to be legal immigrants. Most of the "ranting" in the U.S. is towards the law-breaking immigrants who now want amnesty. There is a consensus in America in favor of legal immigration, the political fight is over the inability of America to secure its borders and how to assimilate the millions of people who entered the country illegally.

Re: A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

#23

Post by wildgift »

001sky wrote: post #16
jacquesm wrote: post #2

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Immigrants have one leg up over the competition: they have generally very little to lose and everything to gain. They have also already self-selected for being people that are not risk adverse (they just left everything behind to start a new life) and they are executing on their dreams. I often see people that rant against immigrants in general and I always wonder how they would…

Would be interesting to see the income distribution of the families of these VC backed founders. Most if not all of these founders will be exceptionally well-to-do. The cost of going to an elite university program outside of their home country is staggering without financial aid. In any event, not (by any means) a sample from which to extrapolate from. That being said, more power to them for overcoming the still very…

I like how they picked Arianna Huffington as one of the immigrants. She came from well-to-do family, studied in England. By the 70s, she was already some kind of elite person in London, came over here, married a wealthy politician, became a well known right-wing pundit, divorced when he came out as gay, changed political direction to liberal and started the HuffPo.

Re: A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

#24

Post by wildgift »

newbie12 wrote: post #22
jacquesm wrote: post #2

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Immigrants have one leg up over the competition: they have generally very little to lose and everything to gain. They have also already self-selected for being people that are not risk adverse (they just left everything behind to start a new life) and they are executing on their dreams. I often see people that rant against immigrants in general and I always wonder how they would…

These entrepreneurs all appear to be legal immigrants. Most of the "ranting" in the U.S. is towards the law-breaking immigrants who now want amnesty. There is a consensus in America in favor of legal immigration, the political fight is over the inability of America to secure its borders and how to assimilate the millions of people who entered the country illegally.

There is a lot of political support for "amnesty" or legalizing those who came over illegally. They want to give them citizenship eventually.

As the reform law looms, and people really think hard about what it means to keep millions of people "illegal" and then not allow them to become citizens, they really start to think about the consequences, which aren't pretty. It would lead to a two-status society, and when they think about people they know or work with stuck in second-class status, they don't like it.

The fight is between the politicians who want to extract more money or favors from the legislative process, or want to prevent adding more Democrat voters to the rolls in ten years.

So they bring up this border fence and security plan. It's an expensive boondoggle that won't stop half of the illegal immigration, because many "illegal" immigrants had legal visas when they arrived here. They had a passport and a travel visa, and overstayed the visa intentionally.

And, guess what - the government knows it, but they don't do much about it. The reason is because the opposition to these people is minimal. The small businesses employ them. So, there's your support base right there. If they really enforced the law, a lot of relatively wealthy Republicans and Democrats would be upset.

Re: A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

#25

Post by wildgift »

mbesto wrote: post #21
davidw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perhaps it's this painful barrier that filters out all of the immigrants who don't create jobs for the US and does identify the people that do. I don't buy it. If 'painful barriers' were a good thing, you'd see the world's best capitalists in North Korea and Cuba, no? The US has fewer painful barriers to creating companies, and a lot of good infrastructure, and so a lot of the world's largest, biggest, most importa…

If 'painful barriers' were a good thing, you'd see the world's best capitalists in North Korea and Cuba, no? There's a difference between impossible barriers and painful barriers. Just because a wall exist doesn't mean you can't climb over it. My point is a psychological one - that perhaps it's the personality and characteristic of a person who is willing to circumvent government barriers that makes them so appealing…

I think that immigrants face more barriers. Some of these startup folks, I think, probably faced some barriers into entering the elite societies in the US. For example, if you attend college at any of the top 20 colleges in the country, you're going to meet the elite, but an upper-middle class person, especially an immigrant, is going to face difficulties marrying into, or being accepted by these elites.

However, to use the language of the typical undocumented immigrant, of having "nothing to lose", doesn't accurately convey the truth. It's just going to confuse things. There are poor immigrants who start businesses, but by and large, they aren't venture backed startups; more like mom-and-pop stores, food trucks, or swap-meet businesses.

Re: A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

#26

Post by jacquesm »

mbesto wrote: post #19
jacquesm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- I've emigrated myself (to Canada, founded a company there) - I know quite a few people who have done the same thing - I'm generalizing across my personal experience because I am me . Feel free to do the same thing, this is a comment on a forum, not a peer-reviewed study on the subject matter. Funny enough, your experience seems to be the same, which strengthens my 'not being surprised' by this. - People in the US w…

I, nor the person before you, weren't questioning your ability to empathize with the original story. I'm not sure why you chose to highlight facts that back that up. Feel free to do the same thing I don't want to. You have influence on this site and it's very likely someone will read your original comment and take your conclusion to be true because "someone influential said it on the internet". Your generalization is…

I agree with you that an American moving to the UK is not taking a risky path. But that is not the general case for immigration, it is rather an outlier.

Re: A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

#27

Post by torrenegra »

It appears that most of these entrepreneurs are documented immigrants, which may be an argument in favor of keeping the current US immigration system. However, it's important to keep a few things in mind:

a) Some of these entrepreneurs were able to stay in the US because they got married to an American citizen (that's my case, BTW).

b) Many would-be-entrepreneurs that tried to migrate to the US end up setting shops somewhere else because they couldn't stay legally.

c) Most entrepreneurs that are undocumented immigrants in the US (I know many that own small businesses) have major issues scaling their businesses and won't ever show up in articles like that one. For example: its extremely difficult for them to get credit lines. Additionally, they won't ever talk to the press because they are afraid, and legitimately so, of becoming a deportation target.

The current immigration system in the US is broken. Ignorance and political-driven xenophobia are not helping. I really wonder how long it will take for most Americans to realize that although it used to be a privilege to migrate to the US, the global dynamics have shifted. It's now a privilege for the US the welcome many immigrants, specially technology and entrepreneurship-oriented ones. Many other countries already figured that out and have adapted their laws.

Re: A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

#28

Post by [deleted] »

netcan wrote: post #12
jacquesm wrote: post #2

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Immigrants have one leg up over the competition: they have generally very little to lose and everything to gain. They have also already self-selected for being people that are not risk adverse (they just left everything behind to start a new life) and they are executing on their dreams. I often see people that rant against immigrants in general and I always wonder how they would…

I think there are some close cousins of "nothing to lose" that are at work too. As an immigrant your out of your own system and its expectations. Say you come from a background where your reference group mostly follows a path of: go to high school, go to 3 year Uni, travel for a year, then either start climbing corporate ladders or more Uni, etc. Obviously, not everyone follows the exact same path, but there is a lot…

[deleted]

Re: A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

#29

Post by bdcravens »

jacquesm wrote: post #8
bdcravens wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems a bit of a generalization, or dare I say, a romanticization. It's supposing you know the motivations driving a group of people whose only shared characteristic is that they weren't born in the United States. In many ways, it's as much a generalization as the "people that rant against immigrants in general".

No, that was mostly from personal experience.

In my personal experience, designers tend to wear more thick plastic "hipster" style glasses than the general public. Therefore, hipster glasses make you a better designer.

I'd submit that it's not about "more to lose", but rather, it's a move of safety. You see a lot of the same businesses operated by the same types of people. Why? Is that group of people in a caste system that requires them to operate that type of business? No. There's safety in numbers, and birds of a feather flock together (and may work to protect the hatchlings as well).

Perhaps VCs have found that there's a certain profile they like for a company. If I was founding a company and thought having an immigrant co-founder could make the funding process easier, you'd better believe it would affect my choices of co-founders. Are there also tax incentives? I know in Oklahoma, there's a ton of businesses "owned" by Native Americans, even though the company is usually run by someone else. Keep in mind that you only need one immigrant founder to make it an immigrant founded company. (What would the % be like if 100% were the requirement?) Is Barack Obama considered black or white?

If you look at the profiles of these companies, I think you'll find a lot of the good ole business practices in place. (tongue planted in cheek here) Immigrants? yes. American minorities? less so. Women? less so.

I'd love to see a breakdown of bootstrapped companies as well. I suspect it's a different story.

Re: A third of venture-backed IPOs between 2006 and 2012 had an immigrant founder

#30

Post by pessimizer »

goggles99 wrote: post #13
jacquesm wrote: post #2

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Immigrants have one leg up over the competition: they have generally very little to lose and everything to gain. They have also already self-selected for being people that are not risk adverse (they just left everything behind to start a new life) and they are executing on their dreams. I often see people that rant against immigrants in general and I always wonder how they would…

Why is this not news to me? Every immigrant I know is harder working than every us born person I know. America - wealth has made us lazy/complacent and loss of morals has made us unfocused, entitlement minded busybodies.

They also work harder than most of the people where they are from - it's being an immigrant that's associated with being a hard worker, not being from a place other than the US.

Americans work harder than almost every other nationality in the world. New Americans generally work even harder than that.

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